Amos Hi folks--Chpater XVIII today Amos History repeats itself all the time in Wall Street soilguy Good evening Amos Amos hi soilguy no charts tonite, right? carnac joined. Amos no soilguy ok Tom joined. DaveM joined. hugh left. Gary_Fullett joined. JimC joined. carnac amos,latest livermore book -trade like jesse livermore by richard smitten. do u know of this book? Bob What exactly do you mean history repeats itself warren joined. Amos Glanced over it and read something about it--he wrote Jesse's biography---did not think much of it JOEL joined. JOEL good evening all Kiran ge Joel.. Amos Bob-this is the opening line of chpater 18 which I will go over tonight Bob ok handles joined. handles good evening folks....... carnac this is not the biographical book. is a diff. book by same author. handles boker tov amos kent joined. Steve_W joined. warren 'evening Joel, handles and everyone Bob page 178 on the pdf version I have Amos Did not read it can't comment handles hi warren Amos I am reading the paper back and it is page 225 to 232- short and incisive carnac neither have i. lol.need to be a student of wyckoff to write such a book. Bob I like the pdf version.. did some searches on absorb the other day Gary_W joined. Amos the ability to search the book in the pdf version is awesome kent Hi Amos, welcome back Amos hi Amos We had nice Spring madness on this vernal equinox today handles spring madness is right kent rain mixed with snow here in SLC, UT, lol handles euro to the moon Art joined. Gary_Fullett sounds sexy amos kent hey Art warren hi Art handles art T handles kent a rama kent hey Handles Amos handles it is double top on the monthly--how can you call double top -"to the moon?" are you a honey mooner? Art hi Kent , warren , handles and everyone handles having fun amos....... handles shorting the euro tonight Gary_W Hi gang. Gary_F with today's big move. How do you see things? Bob is that a model of yours.. spring madness handles wanted a reaction handles got one from u kent lol Gary_Fullett was an interesting day indeed Gary_Fullett if we ahve tiem later we can discuss Gary_W great. warren euro to the moon and let the buck drop in the pit ... (song) Amos Ok I will start Amos This is chapter 18 of Jesse and it starts with the line: DaveM yes gary Amos "history repeats itself on Wall street" Amos all the time Amos I must tell you that when you read this line as you grow older in the market=--it changes its wardrobe according to your own scars Amos first you think of cycles and you follow them Amos Then you see how Bernstein, who is considered a Guru of cycles--when given 600 mil to manage according to his cycle wisdom-- Amos blows the fund in RECORD TIME! and you wonder Amos It is an important sentence because it gives you some basic to hold on to Amos something to trust and rely upon Amos but then you must read Ed Seykota who said: The market is ALWAYS THE SAME and the MARKET ALWAYS CHANGES Amos Why is Livermore's book considered THE BEST BOOK EVER WRITTEN About trading? Amos At least this is what Market Wizards think and say. Amos Well it has to do with the Pilots association Amos In Israel I alwasy ask people about an Israeli pilot and an Egyptian pilot fighting in the Air-- who will win? biwi joined. biwi hi sorry i'm late Amos After the 1967 war everyone says--The Israeli Pilot is one of the best because he goes thru very rigorous training and the Israeli IAF is known to be the second best in the world Gary_Fullett no prob biwi Amos Then I asked them what happens if the Egyptian pilot flies a Mig 32 (or whatever) and the Israeli pilot flies a Fuga Magister (old and defunct plane)--they HESITATE Amos Because a bad pilot with top plane against a good pilot with INFERIOR plane--who wins? greg sorry guys, need to go home, just finished work and need to get to the family for the evening greg left. Amos And then I try to explain that it is NEVEER THE PILOT who wins but the COMBINATION of the PILOT AND THE PLANE Emile joined. Amos So it is with trading-- we learn several methods of trading in our life-- learn to TRUST certain MODLES (after all "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF " and we can trust our model because it WORKED IN THE PAST Amos But it is the COMBINATION of the TRADER AND HIS TOOLS that win Amos This is why we lose Amos If you do not understand the SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT COMBINATION-- You fall prey! Amos It is crucial to understand that as you grow with trading, as you grow with capital, as you grow with scars--YOU CHANGE and this is PART OF YOUR TRADING SYSTEM Amos To think of the market as a SEPARATE ENTITY from your OWN SELF--is a big mistake. Amos So When I read this line over the years and this is at least the 15th time I go over the book-- I smile to myself because I understand it DIFFERENTLY as I go JohnF joined. Amos Then he says that when he sold his TT (stock) the "market went down with his selling Amos This is important to note Amos He is talking about the INSIDERS in a Very popular stock and about his OPERATIONS in it almost SINGLE HANDEDLY against the click that CONTROLLED the stock Amos I will say more on page 227-but it is NOT possible today. Amos So you have to read about his PERSONAL ability in this particular campaign with a grain of salt. Amos It is NOT important what he actually did or tells us he did, in the same vein that it is TOTALLY ASSININE to tald about his PERSONAL LIFE and the fact that he committed suicide--to gain wisdom from his words Amos I read some reactions on Joe's forum and I laugh Amos So many great thinkers and contributers died in sad ways. Amos Hemmingway, Van Gogh, Socrates, Rasputin Amos The important thing is TO GLEAN as much wisdom from whoever y ou can and USE IT TO IMPROVE YOURSELF Amos I keep telling about Linus Pauling-- one of the FEW PEOPLE that won 2 Nobel Prizes in their life. Amos One in biochemistry, one in Peace. Amos Must be a giant, no? Amos Then as he grew older he "invented" the MEGA VITAMIN C cure Gary_W he gave a speeach at my college grad Amos He said that ALL ILNESSES can be cured with 10,000 mg of Vitamin C a day. Amos Now every first year biology student knows that the body REGULATES any EXTRA amount of vitamin C in the body by urinating it OUT. Amos How can such a GENIUS say such stupid thing? THEY CAN Gary_W back in 1980, before the above Amos Does it take away from his WISDOM in those fields he was good at? Amos NO Amos You must learn to glean the good stuff from people and REJECT THE BAD STUFF Amos Jesse's WISDOM about the market is so great because HE UNDERSTOOD the concept of the COMBINATION OF THE PILOT AND THE PLANE! Amos He is the ONLY GREAT TRADER who SHARES WITH US , NOT ONLY the WISDOM OF THE MARKET ( which at few junctures I have a STRONG ARGUMENT WITH HIM!)-- but the FACT THAT his trading , in the end--had to do with the INTEERACTION OF HIS OWN LIFE and PSYCHE with the market Amos Next on page 226 at the bottom he says: Amos "I was selling short on a declining market, which was as it should be" Amos This is a CRUCIAL SENTENCE. Amos It takes YEARS TO LEARN TO DO THAT! Amos Most of us Want to SELL HIGH AND BUY LOW Doc_K joined. Amos Very few SENTENCES ARE MORE POISENOUs than this one Amos I Think more people lost money from this BLASH (Buy low and sell high) than from any other scheme in the market Amos Because you NEVER KNOW which "low" is THE "low". handles great point Amos He is the first trader that says clearly that WINNING IN THE MARKET over the long hole is FOLLOWING IT Amos If you buy and the market does not go up-- then something is wrong. Alvin joined. Amos You can say: What about Warren BUFFET? Amos This is NOT A GOOD QUESTION Amos The quote from Rothchild is much better for the long run Amos In the long run-- if you do not act WITH THE TREND-- You will lose MORE THAN YOU WILL MAKE Kelley joined. Amos For EVERY TIME that you will CATCH A CORNER and win-- 9 times you will catch a "FALLING KNIFE" and lose. kent hey Kelley, Alvin, and Doc Alvin hi kent Kelley hi Kent Amos But you must be careful about what he is saying here--because his operation in the stock were HUGE and if you (I) buy 2 contrects of a commodity-- I have to be a little modest Amos Next on page 227 he says : Amos "the market behaved excellently, that is, it declined on my selling" Amos Again, try to forget the fact that he was selling 70,000 shares and he could say that Amos His particular pocket size and operation-- is something that most people CANNOT Emulate--but the PRINCIPLE behind his experience and his WISDOM is what counts. Amos Then in the next to last paragraph he says something awesome: Amos " I had been wanred that the TT insiders KNEW the exact whereabouts of EVERY STOCK cerificat in the Street and the precise DIMENSIONS and IDENTITY of the short interest" Amos "They were able men an d shrewd traders". Amos Please ETCH THIS IN YOUR MEMORY. Amos If you think that this changed today--WOE TO YOU. Amos If you think that Large traders DO NOT PAY under the table to runners on the floor, or back office clerk of any CLEARING HOUSE to find out who is doing what?! Amos If you think that floor traders do not share some of the IMPORTANT TICKETS THEY HOLD in their DECK Amos You are VERY NAIIVE! Amos I know this is sinister, what I say-- BUT SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI Amos This is PART OF THIS GAME Amos WE ARE ALWAYS at a DISADVANTAGE when it comes to THIS MANIPULATIVE GAME Amos Someone ALWAYS knows MORE THAN WE DO Amos Someone always is CLOSER TO THE POT and has an "EDGE" Amos This is why Wyckoff is so important because it FORCES YOU TO LOOK OUT TO significant FORCES that SHOW THEIR FOORSTEPS and Balance a bit this UNFAIR GAME Amos Over the years-- when I read more and more between the lines of different fights and BEHIND THE SCENES actions of traders (Liar's poker, and Barbarians at the gate, are two books that tried to shed some light on this) Amos I always came back to this line in Jesse's book. Amos ACCEPT THE FACT that you will NEVER KNOW as much as some forces who HAVE THE MONEY AND THE CLOUT to know Amos If you talk amongst yourself about who is doing what-- you are fooing yourself Amos YOU DO NOT KNOW Amos When I mentioned the point of 50% indication-- I said that sometimes this is the way those unseen forces COMMUNICATE with each other! Amos I have been fighting all my trading life to get some clues as to what they are telling me Amos AT TIMES-- big volume is a clue Amos At times JUMP AND BACK is a clue... hugh joined. Amos But is is a CONSTANT FIGHT because we are MANIPULATED by those forces that Jesse calls "ABLE AND SHREWD MEN" Amos He goes one to describe the decline of TT from 155 to 90 and he tells us that when he covered his position at 90 he made a million dollars handles amen Amos You think how many shares he had to hold to make that money on 65 dollar drop Amos page 228 is precious for another very important piece of wisdom Amos He tells about Dickson G watts who wrote a book named: Amos "Speculation as a Fine Art" Amos "Courage in a speculator is merely confidence to act on the decision of his mind!" Amos Very nice line Amos Many times we say:"I am scared to do this and that" Amos BS Amos We simply do not have that decision of the mind-- we do not trust our knowledge at the moment and he follows: Amos "With me, I cannot FEAR to be wrong because I never think I am wrong until I am PROVEN WRONG" Amos Think of this line for a moment Amos He says that the only way to be sure you are wrong-- is to LOSE! Amos How many people think that way? Amos "If I fail it must be by my own blunders" Amos Very important-- to think of trading as a mechanism that proves your analysis and decision making. Amos Rather than MAKING A KILLING like some hope for Amos and he says: Amos "The COURSE OF THE MARKET at a GIVEN TIME does not necessarily prove me wrong!" Amos Heavy sentence-- takes years TO UNDERSTAND THIS Amos He stayed short in a rally of TT from 133 back to 150 and he explains why: Amos "There was NOTHING in the CHARACTER OF THE RALLY from 133 to 150 to frighten me into covering". Amos This is a heavy line and he repeats it several times in the book. Amos I am sorry I cannot explain this more. Amos But this is one of the BASICS OF WYCKOFF Amos the CHARACTER OF THE RALLY. Amos What does it mean? Amos HE DOES NOT SAY Amos But we know that he means the VOLUME, THE RANGE OF THE BARS ON THE Up vs. the DOWN, the NUMBER OF DAYS in the rally vs the decline Amos can you name more? handles reaction of each bar handles from the previous warren what part of the cycle we are in JOEL continues to confirm what it has been doing JOEL higher highs for example DaveM SOT vol, etc warren is the stock moving with or against the market Amos He comes back to the TAPE! on page 229 he says: Amos "the most effective retort is THAT WHICH THE TAPE ALONE CAN PRINT" Amos When I first read the book (it is falling apart over theyears) I see that I circled the whole paragraph on top of page 229 and wrote on the side with BIG LETTERS- W Y C K O F F Amos Wyckoff simply took what Jesse calls "the tape" and enlarged it to the BAR CHART. Amos This is what I think. I cannot prove it-- but I am convinced about it swetz joined. Amos We DO NOT KNOW what the "INSIDERS" are doing. He could TELL IT FROM THE TAPE! from the CHARACTER OF THE BUYING AND THE SELLING Amos How do we do it today? Amos I do it with Volume and range. Amos My Point and figure chart only gives me potential energy--but the BAR AND VOLUME is supposed to tell us the "NATURE OF THE BUYING AND THE SELLING" or which side of SUPPLY AND DEMAND is IN CONTROL. Amos It is NOT EASY! Amos Many times moves are manipulated. Amos How do we DIFFERENTIATE TRUE MOVES FROM FAKE ONES? handles longer term charts handles monthly handles weekly Amos BIG QUESTIONS handles harder to fudge Amos He is NOT TALKING ABOUT LONG TERM here Amos He is talking about the "NATURE OF THE PARICULAR MOVE" JOEL from the reactions to the moves ~ Amos this is NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND but it goes to the HEART OF THE MATTER! JOEL ? Amos He is mentioning here on these pages one very important thing-- the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VALUE AND PRICE. Amos He says that people who saw the stock trading at 155 and now trading 20 dollars lower--think that it is "WORTHWHILE" to buy it Amos One very crucial mistake traders do is equate VALUE and PRICE and this is a big mistake. In another place I will talk more about it --but he mentions this as one of the public MAJOR MISTAKES Amos WE NEVER KNOW VALUE! Amos We ONLY KNOW PRICE! Amos Important to understand this Amos Then he tells again how he could withstand rallies in that stock (TT) and says page 231: Amos " I stood pat throughout because I knw my position was sound Amos This is now easy to understand Amos "the frequent rallies ..could NOT frighten me. I knew I'd do much better in the end by staying pat than by truing to cover to put out a new short line at a higher price" Amos HEAVY Amos This is a guy who trader for 1/2 points in the bucket shops Amos Who was so sensitive to the minute moves of stocks Amos Here he is saying that THERE ARE TIMES that STAYING WITH A POSITION is BETTER. Amos TIME FRAMES. PERIOD Amos There are times that it PAYS TO STAY WITH THE TREND and then there are times that is DOES NOT. Amos Identifying those situations is one of the MOST CRUCIAL ASPECTS OF SUCCESSFUL TRADERS Amos HOW CAN YOU TELL? Amos Well, there are times when it is easy and times that it is very difficult. Amos I tend to think that SYNERGY is the secret-- if I can get the long term chart to give me similar signals that the SHORTER TERM CHART gives--then I have more chance of being right Amos But the long term chart REQUIRES PATIENCE while the short term chart requires ACTION NOW Amos This is why TIME is such a BIG ENEMY OF traders. Amos Jesse himself is somewhat confusing. Amos He says in this chapter that "THE FUNDAMENTALS " called for staying with his position because the WHOLE MARKET was getting to be "HEAVY" Amos and eventually a SINGLE STOCK MUST succumb to the GENERAL TREND even if it bucks it for a while Amos But several lines later he GOES BACK to that MYSTERIOUS statment: THE NATURE OF THE MOVE" Amos This is NOT EASY, FOLKS Amos I am not trying to show you that Jesse has and gives us all the answers. Amos Many times he leaves me with many question marks Amos But, at least, he is telling me where the answer lies--IF I CAN FIND IT Amos He syas: Amos "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER AND POWER need no fear lies--NOT EVEN WHEN THE TAPE PRINS THEM" Amos bottom of large paragraph MIDDLE of page 231 Amos I have this line heavily underlined. Amos It sounds so impressive. so wise Amos What does it mean? handles left. Amos Well, all I can tell you is that IT CHANGES as YOU, the inidividual trader GROW over the years Amos I do not have a simple answer. Amos It is a CONSTANT SEARCh after this knowledge handles joined. JOEL what you know you do not fear Amos It changes with market experience and with your own scars and peace of mind Amos Everyone of us thinks they possess the KNOWLEDGE. Amos But I have found that other's knowledge only cost me money. Amos If I cannot incorporate a certain model into my soul, into my set of personal abilites, shortcomings, pain level and such--then it is worthless Amos For example-- one of the worst things a trader can do is DETERMINE that tha market will turn and See in their mind's eye the next profit down the road. Amos Does NOT WORK Amos If you trade even a little bit beynod your means--You will get killed. Amos Murphy's law always work Amos INSTEAD OF VISIULIZING the next big move, the next winning trade-- a MUCH BETTER WAY IS to say the following: Amos "I think the market will stop here and will go that way" Amos I am willing to risk ONE CONTRACT on that guess. Amos If the market does not go my way-- I WILL WAIT FOR THE NEXT PLACE that it is likely to stop and ONLY THERE I WILL ADD. Amos If you are patient about the SIZE OF YOUR GET-- You can sustain large mistakes Amos But most of us do NOT take the message of the market (GOING AGAINST US IN THE FIRST PLACE) seriously. Amos The big losses come from OVER LEVEREGING! Amos If you DO NOT OVERLEVERAGE-- YOU DONT GET WIPED OUT Amos You als do NOT make big money. JimC left. JimC joined. Amos You have to be careful when you read Jesse--because he talks BIG NUMBERS--BUT ONLY BECAUSE HE COULD AFFORD IT Amos and he GOT PUNISHED FOR THAT SEVERAL TIMES IN HIS LIFE! Amos I do not take what he says as a cermon (sermon?) from the Mountaing. Amos I only take those points that are TRUE IN GENERAL about the mind and soul of a trader and try NOT to repeat same mistakes again Amos Another exampl is the last line of the next to last paragraph on page 231: Amos " THEN SUDDENLY , THE CHARCTER OF THE BUYING CHANGED" Amos This sentence haunted me for many years and to a certain degree, still does Amos What does it mean the character of the buying? Amos He DOES NOT EXPLAIN Amos But it is clear that HE KNEW because he says on the last line of the page: Al joined. Amos At 153 I covered my 10,000 shares and at 156 I actually went long because by that time the Tape told me the LINE OF LEAST RESISTANCE was UPWARD" Joe_K joined. Amos Here is a person who played the short side of TT for over 2 years and made over 1 million dollars saying: handles joeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Amos I covered my shorts and went long Amos You can say--SURE--It was a 2 year high--of course you must go long Amos He says: THE CHARACTER OF THE BUYING CHANGED. Amos What does it mean? Amos All I can guess is that it, AGAIN, has to do with volume and price-- Amos Perhaps it has to do with the daily and weekly chart making consistently HIGHER LOWS-- (ascending triangle as some want to call it?) Amos I do not know Amos But the ability to GUAGE MARKET ACTION and realize that one side (supply or demand) is TAKING OVER-- is very crucial. Amos TT went to 200 from there and he was actullay LONG Amos How do you learn this? Amos You certainly do not learn this from using mechanical tools. Amos It has to do with STUDYING the ACTION OF THE MARKET Amos Of learning to decipher the intentions of the forces behind the market thru PRICE ACTION. Amos No method that I know comes closer to this than Wyckoff. Amos And I am pretty sure that Wyckoff gleaned much of his wisdom from Jesse's experience. Amos I am sorry that he does not tell more Amos But if you read between his lines--he is hinting again and again that MARKET ACTION should tell you, AT TIMES, the intention of the movers. Amos He is talking about insiders. Wyckoff calls this CM-- it does not matter. I like to call it today SMART MONEY (to remind me that I am the STUPIC MONEY) Amos But this is important. Amos I find it a life long struggle to understand these things Amos Most poeople find it VERY TEDIOUS. Amos Trying to cope with the unknown is TIRING Amos THis is why people regress into MECHANICAL MODELS because THEY DICTATE WHAT THE MARKET SHOULD DO. Amos Anyone who believes that the market obeys PHYSICLA or MATHEMATICAL rules-- is just foolish Amos The big problem again--is that TRADING THE WYCKOFF WAY is VERY TIRING Amos You must think all the time-- and MOST PEOPLE ARE LAZY! Amos That is why WUCKOFF IS SO UN POPULAR! Amos AND TO add insult to injury--these things CHANGE Amos As Jesse says: "SUDDENLY.....the charcter changed" Amos If y ou get set in your thinking and you do not keep PLIABLE and ready to change on the spot--- you will die on the vine too. Amos Who wants such tedious and dangerous life? Amos This is what we chose and I , at least, find it very challenging Amos Everyday I sit in front of the computer-- I feel I am playing chess with the Kasparovs and the Anands of the world Amos When I make money it is not only the money but the knowledge (satisfaction if you wish) that I beat the BEST MINDS IN THE GAME! Amos Let me summarize the important points of this chpater: Amos 1. Must buy or sell WITH THE TREND Amos 2. Animal farm is wise: "All animals are equal, BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS"... Amos INSIDERS and others KNOW MORE THAN WE DO--MUST ACCEPT THIS Amos 3. Nature of market move CAN BE, at times REVEALED THRU THE TAPE Amos 4.When the nature of the market changes-- YOU MUST SURRENDER, no matter what happened before Amos I am done Amos Ask questions Tom left. Amos today was certainly interestying day kent thanks a lot Amos, very interesting JOEL Any Book on Rothschilds worth reading ? Amos No Joel handles what does the USD look like from here? Amos Better read a book about Rotwillers. Gary_Fullett amos thjoughts on today action? DaveM nice job amos..thxs handles and how will that effect the commods overall..... JOEL LOL swetz GREAT STUFF Amos Amos Today , to me is a watershed day Alvin THX Amos Amos If today was REAL DEMAND--We must continue Amos If today was hypodermic--then the decline should start biwi thank you Amos Amos Also , do not forget we are painting the quartely chart in the next few days-- And this is important Gary_Fullett left. Gary_Fullet joined. Kelley Ty Mr. Cohen, I'm really enjoying this book Amos I lost money today-- but on a very small positions and I feel like I made a fortune that way Gary_Fullet are u referrign to cureicnees and s and op? Amos Staying small on such a day--even if you are TOTALLY WRONG is a big WINNER! Amos All commodities ran up today Amos and on NO NEWS! handles usd handles was the NEWS Amos So either this is one big manipulative rally to scare shorts--or it is a bone fide move-- and we know in the next 2 days! Amos FOMC was a NON EVENT Peter the "news" was the Fed is more concerned about the economy than inflation Amos DXC is still close to DOUBLE BOTTOM-- biwi interesting market action will tell us in the next two day Amos IDK= NMT Amos I DONT KNOW= NEED MORE TIME Amos To me this is very important corner--that will TELL A LOT about the market in the next 3 months Amos more q? Gary_Fullet 8220 area in the sdx Gary_Fullet dx biwi your thoughts of the market first quater? Gary_Fullet amos so buying a retets on a weekly chart is something u look at closely? Amos biwi give me a few more days and see the CLOSE of the quarter biwi ok biwi ty swetz Amos - since we know in SnP cash that resistance is 1460 area and support is 1364 area Amos Absolutely Gary handles well if USD is double bottom what does that mean for commods from here> Amos A day like today makes me DROOL Gary_Fullet do u look at the daily retets the same handles ? swetz we could just wait patiently to look for shorts/longs at these 2 areas? Gary_Fullet or prefer longer term Gary_Fullet like weekly and beyond? Amos handles--dont get me to fight Gary-- I do not trade correlations!!!! all depends what the market wants to do Gary_Fullet the s and p went to a vertical supply area today Amos Trade the dollar for the dollar Amos trade commodities accordging the their chart Gary_Fullet dont fight me amos :) handles good idea Joe_K I think that verticle Bar Gary, important SnP Amos Gary-- the Quarterly chart is now most important to me Joe_K The Supply Bar hugh left. Gary_Fullet i agree there Gary_Fullet i do yes joe Amos A day like today stands out and it has IMPRTANT MESSAGE. I am willing to wait a few days to get the FULL MEANIGN OF TODAY Joe_K that seems to coincide with 78.6 retrace Joe_K 1455.81 Joe_K 78.6 Amos it is not only the stock market-- but the CRB TOO that is very crucial here Joe_K Handles pointed out the EC may warrant a look Gary_Fullet amos , do u look at fibs at all now with a model? swetz Amos - PnF question if you dont mind? Amos yes I do--but trade them ONLY if the market respects them! Amos go ahead steve handles well i am looking at all the currencies and using what i learnt here with gary Joe_K EC looks lofty Handles swetz in the course, Evans talked about measuring targets using the count line itself and the bottom/top of the TR handles yes it does...... swetz but he also mentioned using the 1/2 point swetz between these 2 lines swetz do you use the 1/2 point in your PnF targets too? Amos I use 3 filters on each commodity or index I use. Amos You can use 1/2 points of 1/5 points but you cannot CHANGE FILTER in the middle of the chart as Stockcharts do-- this is stupid Amos If markets show their hand next few days-- I may talk charts next time handles great Amos If I see something clear-- I will write Gary handles any euro thoughts.....or yen? swetz thx Amos DaveM thanks amos Amos Yen broke 8645 and made a weekly high--so that may be important Amos Euro is the opposite of dollar-- I am a small short here Gary_Fullet ask folks if u ahve a q handles thanks..... Art left. kent Pound? Gary_Fullet short the euro amos? Gary_Fullet had a retets today Joe_K Was interesting Yen was dormant Joe_K with SnP Peter :) I shorted the Euro also today :) handles yes joe....i mentioned that kent I shorted the Pound Joe_K Yes you did biwi wheat's action at 460? Joe_K Big H Gary_Fullet well most sw the same resiatnce is good handles wondering about the carry unwind still Amos I know you guys are great traders of the YEN/S&P spread. Amos I dont know how to do that Steve_W Thanks Gary_Fullet jusy saw a correlation handles me neither Steve_W left. Gary_Fullet the severla weeks amos Peter Amos, thank you very much. very thought provoking today, as usual. have a great day JimC left. Gary_Fullet we are here to learn Joe_K I guage the majors metals and SnP Amos OK guys--trade carefully and share share share--collect imortant data points and trade them Amos see you next time Gary_Fullet correlations to em constantly change kent thanks Amos Gary_Fullet amos ty Gary_Fullet again ty biwi thanks Amos Amos gn handles ty amos Amos left. Gary_Fullet i se correlation Gary_Fullet and i think wyckoff judge them Gary_Fullet my opinnion Gary_Fullet so i use them Gary_Fullet but they conastly change Gary_Fullet constantly Al Ty Amos, Gary - gn all Gary_Fullet so I hoped tonigth helped kent gn Al biwi every night helps Gary_Fullet see u all tommorw and if u plan to go to the semainr kent yes, good stuff Joe_K Plus Silver and SnP identicle Rising Wedges and breaks in unison Gary_Fullet and want to book late biwi thank you GAry swetz yep, super good stuff tonight Gary_Fullet plerase let keely knwo Gary_Fullet so we have space for ya Emile night gary Gary_Fullet we are limiting it Gary_Fullet night all ty Gary_Fullet left.