05/30/2002 21:04:20 EDT   User [gary fullett] joined forum from 204.233.213.78 05/30/2002 21:04:27 EDT   You trade off of the 60 minute intraday? 05/30/2002 21:04:34 EDT   good evening 05/30/2002 21:04:36 EDT   Hi Gary 05/30/2002 21:04:38 EDT   but could see it on the 5 min charts very well 05/30/2002 21:04:47 EDT   Hi Gary 05/30/2002 21:04:55 EDT   you could see the volume paterns too elmer? 05/30/2002 21:05:02 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 21:05:18 EDT   at the highs and lows today, very clearly 05/30/2002 21:07:50 EDT   You 're trading stocks, S&P, Elmer? 05/30/2002 21:09:21 EDT   05/30/2002 21:09:56 EDT   sorry, maurice, was trading the NazDogs today, futures 05/30/2002 21:10:32 EDT   we will begin when more show so I dont hav to repeat 05/30/2002 21:10:47 EDT   alot of p[eople are reading the logs as I am getting emails about the classes so thats good 05/30/2002 21:10:55 EDT   your participatiion is well noted :) 05/30/2002 21:10:58 EDT   and I thank u 05/30/2002 21:11:09 EDT   It was pretty cool ... could really see Wyckoff in action 05/30/2002 21:11:14 EDT   but in the mean time any questions?\\ 05/30/2002 21:11:22 EDT   have u been trading it elmer? 05/30/2002 21:11:23 EDT   I have one 05/30/2002 21:11:26 EDT   using wyckoff? 05/30/2002 21:11:33 EDT   How do you get volume Elmer? 05/30/2002 21:11:35 EDT   Elmer, give an example of how you used wycoff today 05/30/2002 21:11:42 EDT   yes, just beginning to put it together 05/30/2002 21:11:46 EDT   good 05/30/2002 21:11:49 EDT   stocks? 05/30/2002 21:12:25 EDT   well, on the noontime test of the AM lows, vol was way lighter and price action tightened up ...saw that on the 5 min and 15 min charts 05/30/2002 21:12:54 EDT   so, waited for a good long entery on the 1 min chart ... again a retest on light vol, and entered long 05/30/2002 21:12:55 EDT   good :) 05/30/2002 21:13:03 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 21:13:07 EDT   I saw that as well 05/30/2002 21:13:08 EDT   no, Naz futures 05/30/2002 21:13:23 EDT   the 1063 was hit today as i mentioned last night i thought it would 05/30/2002 21:13:33 EDT   and then they probbaly sprung that area today 05/30/2002 21:13:41 EDT   but doesn't volume dry up before and around noon on the s&p and naz futues? 05/30/2002 21:13:47 EDT   yeah, could have held that to the close 05/30/2002 21:13:51 EDT   well if i can help u with them elmer please let me know 05/30/2002 21:14:04 EDT   well, they did spring it, but vol was very light 05/30/2002 21:14:10 EDT   correct 05/30/2002 21:14:22 EDT   on the cD it talks about springs on light volume 05/30/2002 21:14:31 EDT   3 types of spreings and upthursts 05/30/2002 21:14:41 EDT   spring and upthust 05/30/2002 21:14:58 EDT   I ordered that CD, can't wait 05/30/2002 21:15:28 EDT   a few CD s went out today 05/30/2002 21:15:37 EDT   so I dont knwo which ones those 05/30/2002 21:15:42 EDT   as kelly handles that 05/30/2002 21:15:58 EDT   but it is nice as money goes to charity for the c 05/30/2002 21:16:00 EDT   c 05/30/2002 21:16:10 EDT   cd 05/30/2002 21:16:51 EDT   User [eileen] joined forum from 66.149.68.34 05/30/2002 21:16:59 EDT   price of cd/S 05/30/2002 21:17:08 EDT   wecolme eileen 05/30/2002 21:17:12 EDT   hi Lucy, Eileen 05/30/2002 21:17:14 EDT   hi 05/30/2002 21:17:22 EDT   the price is 75 dollars 05/30/2002 21:17:48 EDT   for my clients the CD is free.. 05/30/2002 21:18:02 EDT   because they follow wyckoff and it is service that I offer them 05/30/2002 21:18:03 EDT   Are you a broker Gary? 05/30/2002 21:18:08 EDT   Yes I am 05/30/2002 21:18:15 EDT   I have beenn trading for over 20 yrs 05/30/2002 21:18:16 EDT   hi Eileen 05/30/2002 21:18:17 EDT   Independent, or with a firm? 05/30/2002 21:18:21 EDT   I've been reading the old archives ... found one on PB just before the mad cow disease last year ... quite and eye-opener! 05/30/2002 21:18:24 EDT   and I am a registered series 3 broker 05/30/2002 21:18:31 EDT   and own my oen commodity firm 05/30/2002 21:18:38 EDT   as a branch manager 05/30/2002 21:18:50 EDT   where are you located, what state? 05/30/2002 21:18:57 EDT   I clear my trades thru R J O brien 05/30/2002 21:19:07 EDT   an independent IB of A and A trading 05/30/2002 21:19:14 EDT   User [rudy] joined forum from 66.20.147.213 05/30/2002 21:19:15 EDT   I have a branch office of thiers 05/30/2002 21:19:26 EDT   I am 20 miles SW of Chicago 05/30/2002 21:19:30 EDT   hi rudy 05/30/2002 21:19:39 EDT   I worked downtown 05/30/2002 21:19:45 EDT   since 1982 for the most part 05/30/2002 21:19:51 EDT   and now work in the suburbs 05/30/2002 21:19:55 EDT   Gary, can I ask a Q? 05/30/2002 21:20:04 EDT   Yes elmer u may of course 05/30/2002 21:20:08 EDT   good evening everyone 05/30/2002 21:20:17 EDT   evening rudy 05/30/2002 21:20:18 EDT   hi rudy 05/30/2002 21:20:25 EDT   Thanks, How did you get to learn Wyckoff? 05/30/2002 21:20:45 EDT   simple answer or how I stumbled on it? 05/30/2002 21:20:55 EDT   i can give a short version or longer one 05/30/2002 21:21:00 EDT   longer 05/30/2002 21:21:07 EDT   oh, tell all 05/30/2002 21:21:08 EDT   should i bore u all? 05/30/2002 21:21:09 EDT   you can give the short 05/30/2002 21:21:12 EDT   well, I read you went bust, was it after that? 05/30/2002 21:21:16 EDT   User [Joe H] joined forum from 68.98.107.82 05/30/2002 21:21:21 EDT   and i will look up the story hour 05/30/2002 21:21:24 EDT   I went bust? 05/30/2002 21:21:28 EDT   and can post the date of the real version 05/30/2002 21:21:32 EDT   I didnt know that 05/30/2002 21:21:48 EDT   on S&P options, I thought I read ... well nearly bust 05/30/2002 21:21:53 EDT   puts 05/30/2002 21:21:57 EDT   ahhh that 05/30/2002 21:22:03 EDT   true very true 05/30/2002 21:22:15 EDT   i will tell u the story breify 05/30/2002 21:22:16 EDT   is that when you learned Wyckoff? 05/30/2002 21:22:27 EDT   I was a runner in 1982 with Lind waldock 05/30/2002 21:22:36 EDT   that is when the s and p started at CME 05/30/2002 21:22:58 EDT   I used to cozy up to brokers as I ran in orders 05/30/2002 21:23:08 EDT   I hated the biz as first 05/30/2002 21:23:20 EDT   as I was in scholl studying Bio medical enginerring 05/30/2002 21:23:26 EDT   User [ncm] joined forum from 24.136.173.85 05/30/2002 21:23:36 EDT   so one broker asked me if I knew tech trading 05/30/2002 21:23:46 EDT   User [Ron] joined forum from 165.121.228.26 05/30/2002 21:23:51 EDT   as his sister was beggining to trade and didnt know how to do it 05/30/2002 21:23:57 EDT   so I said yes of course 05/30/2002 21:24:02 EDT   I really didnt know much 05/30/2002 21:24:06 EDT   hi everyone 05/30/2002 21:24:17 EDT   but what i noticed is that there was alot of orders that flowed into the pit 05/30/2002 21:24:19 EDT   hi ron 05/30/2002 21:24:36 EDT   so I looked at the sales by price of these orders 05/30/2002 21:24:45 EDT   and I noticed that some prices had more volume of other 05/30/2002 21:24:50 EDT   so I made a histogram 05/30/2002 21:24:56 EDT   of volume vs price 05/30/2002 21:24:58 EDT   and noticed 05/30/2002 21:25:10 EDT   that if I had these alrge volume areas 05/30/2002 21:25:18 EDT   that this was significant 05/30/2002 21:25:32 EDT   so I said if the market was at 5600 in swiss 05/30/2002 21:25:46 EDT   and volume the day before was High at 5580 the p[rev day 05/30/2002 21:25:51 EDT   I would use that as support 05/30/2002 21:25:54 EDT   thinking on a retest 05/30/2002 21:26:01 EDT   that 5580 woud be significant 05/30/2002 21:26:10 EDT   and the big interest would buy there 05/30/2002 21:26:14 EDT   okay so far? 05/30/2002 21:26:19 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 21:26:20 EDT   y 05/30/2002 21:26:22 EDT   k 05/30/2002 21:26:23 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 21:26:25 EDT   y 05/30/2002 21:26:25 EDT   so 05/30/2002 21:26:26 EDT   y 05/30/2002 21:26:28 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 21:26:39 EDT   I used these numbers for some large traders 05/30/2002 21:26:44 EDT   that u have prob heard of 05/30/2002 21:26:51 EDT   User [pat] joined forum from 65.238.35.131 05/30/2002 21:26:51 EDT   and I had success 05/30/2002 21:26:55 EDT   hi pat 05/30/2002 21:27:08 EDT   so another set of brokers hired me 05/30/2002 21:27:17 EDT   hi Gary and all 05/30/2002 21:27:25 EDT   then 1 person on the floor who I told what I was doing told me about wyckoff 05/30/2002 21:27:35 EDT   so I went to the library 05/30/2002 21:27:48 EDT   and I tuaght myself from the SMI book on wyckodd 05/30/2002 21:27:58 EDT   stock market instuitte that has wyckoff course 05/30/2002 21:28:10 EDT   interesting 05/30/2002 21:28:21 EDT   the brokers that I worked with said if i made them money they would sponser me for my seat 05/30/2002 21:28:23 EDT   User [Lacey...] joined forum from 204.30.61.165 05/30/2002 21:28:34 EDT   I made them money 05/30/2002 21:28:36 EDT   hi acey 05/30/2002 21:28:41 EDT   lacey sorry 05/30/2002 21:28:45 EDT   and I got my seat 05/30/2002 21:28:45 EDT   hello 05/30/2002 21:28:49 EDT   hello Lacy... 05/30/2002 21:28:56 EDT   hi lacy 05/30/2002 21:28:57 EDT   I knew wyckoff at this point for about 6 months 05/30/2002 21:29:01 EDT   hi 05/30/2002 21:29:07 EDT   I had masew good money my first month with my seat 05/30/2002 21:29:15 EDT   ....and your bio-med engineering career??? 05/30/2002 21:29:17 EDT   what were you trading at the time, currencies or everything 05/30/2002 21:29:18 EDT   a freind of mine who also started 05/30/2002 21:29:25 EDT   trading with me 05/30/2002 21:29:37 EDT   told me to sell calls and puts in the s and P 05/30/2002 21:29:41 EDT   since I was up money 05/30/2002 21:29:51 EDT   and in 1985 the amrkets didnt move like today 05/30/2002 21:29:56 EDT   I said sure why not 05/30/2002 21:30:02 EDT   I can use the few hundred bucks 05/30/2002 21:30:05 EDT   of premimum 05/30/2002 21:30:11 EDT   so I took his trade 05/30/2002 21:30:20 EDT   by the way u shouldnt take anyone trade 05/30/2002 21:30:28 EDT   afetr a few days 05/30/2002 21:30:37 EDT   I was amking a few bucks like 100 05/30/2002 21:30:43 EDT   on about 10 options not alot 05/30/2002 21:30:59 EDT   the people that I told about this trade after my freind told me 05/30/2002 21:31:02 EDT   got out 05/30/2002 21:31:07 EDT   as they felt un comfy 05/30/2002 21:31:12 EDT   I decided to stay in 05/30/2002 21:31:21 EDT   not really knowing market risks 05/30/2002 21:31:26 EDT   this was NOT a wyckoff trade 05/30/2002 21:31:33 EDT   so the other brokers decided to get out 05/30/2002 21:31:44 EDT   as they relied upon me for wyckofff and not my trading 05/30/2002 21:31:58 EDT   they all got out with a small profit 05/30/2002 21:32:02 EDT   I decided to saty in 05/30/2002 21:32:05 EDT   the makrt broke 05/30/2002 21:32:13 EDT   the puts went into the money 05/30/2002 21:32:18 EDT   I solfd futures to hedge 05/30/2002 21:32:26 EDT   but I didnt sel enouigh as the market broke 05/30/2002 21:32:30 EDT   I lost about 40 k 05/30/2002 21:32:40 EDT   I was devasted 05/30/2002 21:32:47 EDT   it wasnt a wyckoff trade 05/30/2002 21:32:54 EDT   Barry Lind of lind walkdock 05/30/2002 21:33:04 EDT   said Gary now u will learn how to trade 05/30/2002 21:33:14 EDT   he said u know wyckoff trade wyckoff 05/30/2002 21:33:19 EDT   and NOT other peoples ideas 05/30/2002 21:33:32 EDT   it took me about a yr ro make that money back 05/30/2002 21:33:40 EDT   User [Jairo] joined forum from 24.90.122.164 05/30/2002 21:33:44 EDT   but I stress it wasnt a wyckoff trade 05/30/2002 21:33:51 EDT   but i was new at trading and didnt get out 05/30/2002 21:33:52 EDT   hi gary 05/30/2002 21:33:53 EDT   bad me 05/30/2002 21:33:54 EDT   hi everyone 05/30/2002 21:33:57 EDT   hi jairo 05/30/2002 21:34:06 EDT   hello Jairo 05/30/2002 21:34:10 EDT   so i studied wyckoff 05/30/2002 21:34:12 EDT   hi Jairo 05/30/2002 21:34:15 EDT   and that si the story 05/30/2002 21:34:18 EDT   boring huh 05/30/2002 21:34:20 EDT   hi Jairo 05/30/2002 21:34:24 EDT   do you still believe that smi has the best course on wyckoff using the p/f method?????/ 05/30/2002 21:34:27 EDT   but that sales By price 05/30/2002 21:34:31 EDT   not boring 05/30/2002 21:34:36 EDT   made a freind to tell me about wyclkoff 05/30/2002 21:34:41 EDT   and it worked 05/30/2002 21:34:47 EDT   http://www.ltg-trading.com/20020418.txt 05/30/2002 21:34:56 EDT   I think smi does a good job with p and f 05/30/2002 21:35:04 EDT   this it the more entertaining version of how gary started trading, and intro to wyckoff 05/30/2002 21:35:12 EDT   Not boring ... every good trader seems to have that story ... loosing big, but hanging in there and really learning how to trade 05/30/2002 21:35:13 EDT   p & f? 05/30/2002 21:35:17 EDT   It sounds like you were always good at Wyckoff even if you didn't know it was Wyckoff. So one can't really ask you how long it took you to get good. 05/30/2002 21:35:20 EDT   but I dont like the course as it was written yrs ago 05/30/2002 21:35:52 EDT   what is avaible today 05/30/2002 21:35:53 EDT   I have a copy of the course, but no charts ... does SMI still exist? 05/30/2002 21:35:55 EDT   Gary, how many trades do you average each week? 05/30/2002 21:36:21 EDT   I trade about 2-3 per day 05/30/2002 21:36:23 EDT   yes elmer 05/30/2002 21:36:44 EDT   How long do you average holding each trade? 05/30/2002 21:36:46 EDT   for your own account, Gary? 05/30/2002 21:37:27 EDT   . 05/30/2002 21:37:33 EDT   I manage money for sveral clients maurice 05/30/2002 21:37:45 EDT   I hold anywhere from 1-3 days 05/30/2002 21:37:48 EDT   sometimes longer 05/30/2002 21:38:05 EDT   mostly commodities, or some stocks as well? 05/30/2002 21:38:06 EDT   Yes Elmer, SMI still exists. 05/30/2002 21:38:09 EDT   2=3 trades consisting of multiple contracts? 05/30/2002 21:38:19 EDT   just commodities 05/30/2002 21:38:32 EDT   haven't found SMI on the web 05/30/2002 21:38:36 EDT   I give suppport and ressiatnce for some clints that ask for stocks though 05/30/2002 21:38:49 EDT   they are in arizona 05/30/2002 21:38:53 EDT   As a broker do you have to pay commissions or just exchange fees? 05/30/2002 21:38:57 EDT   User [Kent] joined forum from 172.153.160.237 05/30/2002 21:38:57 EDT   sometimes pat 05/30/2002 21:39:18 EDT   I pay a fee to execute my trades thru R J O 05/30/2002 21:39:23 EDT   hello Kent 05/30/2002 21:39:25 EDT   a commision to them 05/30/2002 21:39:28 EDT   <.Hi> 05/30/2002 21:39:34 EDT   okus exchange 05/30/2002 21:39:41 EDT   welcome new comers 05/30/2002 21:39:58 EDT   so i fell upon wyckoff by mmy observations 05/30/2002 21:39:58 EDT   okus? 05/30/2002 21:40:09 EDT   plus I meant sorry 05/30/2002 21:40:18 EDT   i was off on the puter 05/30/2002 21:40:18 EDT   close 05/30/2002 21:40:22 EDT   User [jim] joined forum from 65.81.3.161 05/30/2002 21:40:42 EDT   full house tonight! 05/30/2002 21:41:34 EDT   Gary do you have a favorite commodity to trade? 05/30/2002 21:41:37 EDT   User [greg] joined forum from 209.216.171.149 05/30/2002 21:41:46 EDT   evening all :) 05/30/2002 21:41:48 EDT   hi jim 05/30/2002 21:41:53 EDT   one that makes money 05/30/2002 21:41:57 EDT   hi greg 05/30/2002 21:41:59 EDT   I will give u a hint 05/30/2002 21:42:07 EDT   hi eileen :) 05/30/2002 21:42:09 EDT   many of the charst i send I am involved in 05/30/2002 21:42:14 EDT   so u know what i trade many times 05/30/2002 21:42:37 EDT   How many hours a day do you spend looking a charts? 05/30/2002 21:42:37 EDT   hi greg 05/30/2002 21:42:47 EDT   well I get up at 6 30 am 05/30/2002 21:42:51 EDT   hi gary :) 05/30/2002 21:43:02 EDT   i bet more hours looking at charts than not 05/30/2002 21:43:12 EDT   I do charts 05/30/2002 21:43:14 EDT   05/30/2002 21:43:17 EDT   and he goes to bed at 10:30 05/30/2002 21:43:20 EDT   till 715 05/30/2002 21:43:23 EDT   hello greg 05/30/2002 21:43:25 EDT   :0 05/30/2002 21:43:28 EDT   then I watch markets 05/30/2002 21:43:30 EDT   What charting service do you use? 05/30/2002 21:43:33 EDT   hi maurice 05/30/2002 21:43:39 EDT   I trade till 315 pm 05/30/2002 21:43:50 EDT   then I do charts from 4 till 8 05/30/2002 21:43:55 EDT   . 05/30/2002 21:43:55 EDT   sometimes baseball 05/30/2002 21:44:02 EDT   then I do class 05/30/2002 21:44:05 EDT   then 1030 05/30/2002 21:44:15 EDT   how do you go about charts? 05/30/2002 21:44:18 EDT   I leave the puter do charts for about 1 hour and go to leep 05/30/2002 21:44:39 EDT   I go thru 05/30/2002 21:44:44 EDT   the weekly every friday 05/30/2002 21:44:47 EDT   like, how many charts are you looking at? 05/30/2002 21:44:52 EDT   then monthly every month 05/30/2002 21:44:52 EDT   you need some exercise 05/30/2002 21:45:01 EDT   but those numbers in my mind 05/30/2002 21:45:09 EDT   then I look at daly every day 05/30/2002 21:45:11 EDT   for example, do you have a specific list, let's say 100 commodities, that you're looking at? 05/30/2002 21:45:16 EDT   and use intraday to buy and sell 05/30/2002 21:45:23 EDT   I look at all every day 05/30/2002 21:45:34 EDT   I do with baseball 05/30/2002 21:45:39 EDT   and weekends :) 05/30/2002 21:45:43 EDT   intraday being what time frame? 05/30/2002 21:45:43 EDT   Gary, any indicators? 05/30/2002 21:45:57 EDT   so I am consantly rewieng jaoro 05/30/2002 21:46:06 EDT   5 min to 15 min zoo 05/30/2002 21:46:12 EDT   ok 05/30/2002 21:46:18 EDT   No indicators Just plain old Mr wyckoff 05/30/2002 21:46:24 EDT   jairo sorry 05/30/2002 21:46:31 EDT   What are you basing your entry signals on with the intraday charts? 05/30/2002 21:46:36 EDT   User [George] joined forum from 65.69.98.161 05/30/2002 21:46:59 EDT   05/30/2002 21:47:03 EDT   support ressiatnce zoo 05/30/2002 21:47:11 EDT   hi george 05/30/2002 21:47:20 EDT   hi Gary 05/30/2002 21:47:22 EDT   no voodoo 05/30/2002 21:47:33 EDT   . 05/30/2002 21:47:37 EDT   just got through mowing 05/30/2002 21:47:43 EDT   So, if the daily tells you to go long you are looking for the best entry on the 5 minute even if it is in a down trend? 05/30/2002 21:47:43 EDT   just watching market action 05/30/2002 21:47:46 EDT   by the way 05/30/2002 21:47:53 EDT   if u want to see a great trader work 05/30/2002 21:47:54 EDT   free 05/30/2002 21:47:58 EDT   and she uses wyckoff 05/30/2002 21:48:10 EDT   U should go on Monday to linda raschkes site 05/30/2002 21:48:15 EDT   1 time a month 05/30/2002 21:48:30 EDT   yes many times zoo 05/30/2002 21:48:43 EDT   I try NOT to buy if a amrket is UNDER the opening range 05/30/2002 21:48:58 EDT   why not? 05/30/2002 21:49:00 EDT   if the market is above the opeining range and bullish i buy at support 05/30/2002 21:49:13 EDT   ok 05/30/2002 21:49:15 EDT   because opening opening range generally means weakness for that day 05/30/2002 21:49:24 EDT   unless i am scalping real quick 05/30/2002 21:49:35 EDT   then I may for a few ticks 05/30/2002 21:49:49 EDT   you mean a down opening range may mean weakness? 05/30/2002 21:49:55 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 21:50:24 EDT   well today opened down in the s&P went back up then down and then a rally at the end 05/30/2002 21:50:54 EDT   I mentioned to u yesterday 05/30/2002 21:51:01 EDT   . 05/30/2002 21:51:03 EDT   I expect the 1063 area to be reached 05/30/2002 21:51:09 EDT   and I thought it would rally from there 05/30/2002 21:51:23 EDT   opening range was up zoo 05/30/2002 21:51:27 EDT   it went under whee i thought it would be did react today 05/30/2002 21:51:28 EDT   yes, and I meant to ask you why 1063. I didn't see that as any long or short term suporrt poing??? 05/30/2002 21:51:36 EDT   ponint 05/30/2002 21:51:39 EDT   point 05/30/2002 21:51:53 EDT   ahh u want to know huh :) 05/30/2002 21:52:02 EDT   the low of april 29 was 1063 area 05/30/2002 21:52:10 EDT   20 day low perhaps? 05/30/2002 21:52:32 EDT   dont know that 05/30/2002 21:52:39 EDT   just know that 1063 was support 05/30/2002 21:52:41 EDT   then 1054 05/30/2002 21:52:42 EDT   brb 05/30/2002 21:52:49 EDT   I think the market will rally from here 05/30/2002 21:52:54 EDT   over the next week or so 05/30/2002 21:53:30 EDT   any other q? 05/30/2002 21:53:56 EDT   yes 1000 05/30/2002 21:54:00 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 21:54:01 EDT   I want to do wyckoff principles 05/30/2002 21:54:06 EDT   k 05/30/2002 21:54:09 EDT   I have a few topics 05/30/2002 21:54:11 EDT   But 05/30/2002 21:54:20 EDT   Sorry for interruption, but SMI course http://www.stockmarket.qpg.com/ (Elmer asked) 05/30/2002 21:54:21 EDT   did u have one that u want me to talk on 05/30/2002 21:54:25 EDT   k 05/30/2002 21:54:25 EDT   U always come first 05/30/2002 21:54:33 EDT   thjank u shar 05/30/2002 21:54:45 EDT   thanks Shar -- appreciate that 05/30/2002 21:54:53 EDT   welcome 05/30/2002 21:55:00 EDT   ty/shar 05/30/2002 21:55:12 EDT   User [lmarsh] joined forum from 216.135.17.238 05/30/2002 21:55:21 EDT   hi lmarsh 05/30/2002 21:55:23 EDT   Gary, one last question on todays action 05/30/2002 21:55:31 EDT   k zoo 05/30/2002 21:55:44 EDT   Hello Mr. fullett, wow you've got a full house! 05/30/2002 21:55:49 EDT   05/30/2002 21:55:51 EDT   today we went below 1063, how do you know that is a spring and not a nose dive? 05/30/2002 21:56:04 EDT   05/30/2002 21:56:05 EDT   05/30/2002 21:56:20 EDT   and zack joe and a few others arent here:)lol 05/30/2002 21:56:36 EDT   yep, 05/30/2002 21:56:41 EDT   what's the topic? 05/30/2002 21:56:54 EDT   can you talk about tightening of the range, and whether it is a safe spot for an entry? 05/30/2002 21:57:16 EDT   IF I had bought at 63 I would have been stopped out at 59 or 60 it went to 54 05/30/2002 21:57:21 EDT   elemer I can 05/30/2002 21:57:29 EDT   thanks 05/30/2002 21:57:37 EDT   thats fine zoo 05/30/2002 21:57:51 EDT   and u probbaly woud have rebought near the next support at thre 1054 area 05/30/2002 21:57:54 EDT   and made it back 05/30/2002 21:58:49 EDT   okay lets talk about tightening of ranges 05/30/2002 21:59:05 EDT   and tighening of the daus action 05/30/2002 21:59:18 EDT   days 05/30/2002 21:59:29 EDT   this is important !!! 05/30/2002 21:59:39 EDT   . 05/30/2002 21:59:41 EDT   as U know 05/30/2002 21:59:44 EDT   or should know 05/30/2002 21:59:54 EDT   markets go sideways 05/30/2002 22:00:18 EDT   1 sec please 05/30/2002 22:01:38 EDT   User [pat] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:02:02 EDT   User [patrick] joined forum from 66.32.232.152 05/30/2002 22:02:10 EDT   User [pat] joined forum from 65.238.35.131 05/30/2002 22:03:07 EDT   hi patrick 05/30/2002 22:03:14 EDT   and pat 05/30/2002 22:03:14 EDT   anyone long sn2? 05/30/2002 22:03:20 EDT   howdy 05/30/2002 22:03:37 EDT   hi pat 05/30/2002 22:03:47 EDT   what is sn2? 05/30/2002 22:03:53 EDT   hello everyone 05/30/2002 22:03:53 EDT   lmasrsh, is that sugar? 05/30/2002 22:04:01 EDT   July soybeans 2002 05/30/2002 22:04:03 EDT   I'm doing the long SN2, short SX2 spread 05/30/2002 22:05:16 EDT   neat kent. I've never done a spread, but have looked at em alot. good play 05/30/2002 22:05:22 EDT   sorry 05/30/2002 22:05:32 EDT   no prob gary :) 05/30/2002 22:05:49 EDT   okay 05/30/2002 22:05:52 EDT   back 05/30/2002 22:06:00 EDT   markets are alwasy doing something 05/30/2002 22:06:01 EDT   so am i :) 05/30/2002 22:06:10 EDT   the have a TR or trading range to have cause 05/30/2002 22:06:17 EDT   this cause leads to a move 05/30/2002 22:06:25 EDT   the larger the cause 05/30/2002 22:06:35 EDT   the more prep time it had 05/30/2002 22:06:54 EDT   as I said wyckoff is about volume and price action 05/30/2002 22:06:57 EDT   nothing else 05/30/2002 22:07:01 EDT   so.. 05/30/2002 22:07:06 EDT   Right, unless you are a programmer :) 05/30/2002 22:07:09 EDT   lets say IBM moves up 1 dollar 05/30/2002 22:07:20 EDT   on 1 million shares 05/30/2002 22:07:38 EDT   the next day 05/30/2002 22:07:51 EDT   IBM moves up 1 dollar on 10 million shares 05/30/2002 22:07:56 EDT   is this the same action? 05/30/2002 22:08:05 EDT   not even close 05/30/2002 22:08:09 EDT   bearish? 05/30/2002 22:08:16 EDT   lets say 05/30/2002 22:08:22 EDT   nope. More supply with 10 mil 05/30/2002 22:08:25 EDT   not taking bullish or bearish yet 05/30/2002 22:08:34 EDT   lets say 05/30/2002 22:08:43 EDT   the range on the first day was 5 points 05/30/2002 22:08:49 EDT   5 bucks 05/30/2002 22:09:13 EDT   on 1 million shares 05/30/2002 22:09:18 EDT   and moved up 1 buck 05/30/2002 22:09:25 EDT   then on 10 million the range was 3 bucks 05/30/2002 22:09:30 EDT   is there a differnce 05/30/2002 22:09:40 EDT   or the fact it went up 1 buck fine? 05/30/2002 22:10:03 EDT   should have gone up more I think on the big volume, had a wider range?? 05/30/2002 22:10:10 EDT   there is a differnce right 05/30/2002 22:10:16 EDT   okay 05/30/2002 22:10:23 EDT   if the range was 3 bucks 05/30/2002 22:10:29 EDT   on 10 million 05/30/2002 22:10:35 EDT   but 5 bucks on 10 million 05/30/2002 22:10:43 EDT   who is controlling that range? 05/30/2002 22:10:54 EDT   cm? 05/30/2002 22:10:54 EDT   the cm 05/30/2002 22:11:00 EDT   cm 05/30/2002 22:11:01 EDT   you mean 5 bucks on 1 million? 05/30/2002 22:11:03 EDT   someone is selling into that 05/30/2002 22:11:06 EDT   to keep the range tight? 05/30/2002 22:11:16 EDT   the CM 05/30/2002 22:11:24 EDT   do u think it is a small trader selling 100 shares 05/30/2002 22:11:29 EDT   that keeps that range tight 05/30/2002 22:11:39 EDT   I think it is larger interest 05/30/2002 22:11:41 EDT   no 05/30/2002 22:11:45 EDT   why would he keep that range tight? 05/30/2002 22:12:03 EDT   because if the 10 million shaers moves the amrket up 5 bucks 05/30/2002 22:12:04 EDT   he's accumulating? 05/30/2002 22:12:14 EDT   this will give funds a reason to buy a possible break out 05/30/2002 22:12:35 EDT   and he doesnt want to show a good tech picture 05/30/2002 22:12:46 EDT   because if he is short 05/30/2002 22:12:52 EDT   and the amrket looks bullish 05/30/2002 22:12:57 EDT   he has to fight the funds 05/30/2002 22:13:03 EDT   so if he keeps that range tight 05/30/2002 22:13:11 EDT   the tech picture doesnt look good 05/30/2002 22:13:18 EDT   right? understand? questions? 05/30/2002 22:13:34 EDT   got it 05/30/2002 22:13:44 EDT   k 05/30/2002 22:13:53 EDT   ? 05/30/2002 22:13:54 EDT   so the cm's short and trying to hold the price down? 05/30/2002 22:13:56 EDT   yes? no? 05/30/2002 22:14:12 EDT   I am just talking about the action over 2 days 05/30/2002 22:14:24 EDT   this is called by me "stuffing" 05/30/2002 22:14:29 EDT   But what is imporant 05/30/2002 22:14:36 EDT   is that it should be a red flag 05/30/2002 22:14:47 EDT   because price action ( range) and volume sont match 05/30/2002 22:15:04 EDT   doesnt 05/30/2002 22:15:13 EDT   and this should be a sign to u to be alert 05/30/2002 22:15:14 EDT   So in essence this is what is meant by inside days out side days, etc? 05/30/2002 22:15:35 EDT   to a degre yes 05/30/2002 22:15:39 EDT   but Not alwasy zoo 05/30/2002 22:15:57 EDT   dont forget Funds, large specs 05/30/2002 22:15:58 EDT   this is the principle of effort v result that we are discussing 05/30/2002 22:16:00 EDT   like to buy 05/30/2002 22:16:03 EDT   on new highs 05/30/2002 22:16:06 EDT   and sell at new lows 05/30/2002 22:16:10 EDT   mechicacal 05/30/2002 22:16:21 EDT   so if the cM is accumulating 05/30/2002 22:16:26 EDT   after the selling climax 05/30/2002 22:16:37 EDT   he KNOWs the funds will sell weakness 05/30/2002 22:16:43 EDT   but since he is accumuating 05/30/2002 22:16:47 EDT   the CM is buying weakness 05/30/2002 22:17:00 EDT   so he cant have such a neg picture 05/30/2002 22:17:07 EDT   because he will have to fight the funds 05/30/2002 22:17:11 EDT   and large specs 05/30/2002 22:17:21 EDT   so if a fund sells alot at a new lows 05/30/2002 22:17:24 EDT   after a SC 05/30/2002 22:17:31 EDT   who absorbs that volume? 05/30/2002 22:17:34 EDT   a small spec? 05/30/2002 22:17:43 EDT   How could the big funds be so stupid? 05/30/2002 22:17:50 EDT   why? 05/30/2002 22:18:01 EDT   funds are trend followers 05/30/2002 22:18:08 EDT   they follow a trend till the very end 05/30/2002 22:18:12 EDT   and it turns 05/30/2002 22:18:21 EDT   they catch a few moves 05/30/2002 22:18:23 EDT   and miss many 05/30/2002 22:18:36 EDT   05/30/2002 22:18:36 EDT   05/30/2002 22:18:36 EDT   markets chop they get hurt 05/30/2002 22:18:36 EDT   05/30/2002 22:19:12 EDT   So, let me see, if there is heavy selling at the bottom , the cm buys and has to take it up, to get his profit...but HOW exactly does he force the prices up? 05/30/2002 22:19:17 EDT   and by funds, you mean ...? 05/30/2002 22:19:55 EDT   the CM doesnt force anything zoo 05/30/2002 22:20:10 EDT   Fidelity Janus, etc? 05/30/2002 22:20:32 EDT   he accum his line then uses the news to get the funds and specs to buy 05/30/2002 22:20:47 EDT   User [Ron] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:20:48 EDT   He manipulates the news!!? 05/30/2002 22:20:55 EDT   . 05/30/2002 22:21:02 EDT   User [Ron] joined forum from 165.121.228.26 05/30/2002 22:21:16 EDT   he USES the news 05/30/2002 22:21:16 EDT   Uses the news zoo. 05/30/2002 22:21:20 EDT   . 05/30/2002 22:21:24 EDT   the when the frenzy hits in the form of a BC he se 05/30/2002 22:21:24 EDT   Also, the funds just sold. Aren't they going to wait until new highs to get back in? 05/30/2002 22:21:24 EDT   05/30/2002 22:21:26 EDT   Beat ya! lol 05/30/2002 22:21:40 EDT   sells as much as he can 05/30/2002 22:21:51 EDT   too quick for me ... lucky this ain't the OK Coral! 05/30/2002 22:22:01 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 22:22:20 EDT   took more time to use those caps! 05/30/2002 22:22:20 EDT   patience elmer,,, 05/30/2002 22:22:22 EDT   How does he know there is GOING TO BE NEWS? 05/30/2002 22:22:36 EDT   thats a good q 05/30/2002 22:22:43 EDT   how does the cm know 05/30/2002 22:22:49 EDT   Gary makes it sound like he is awful confident there is going to be some kind of newes 05/30/2002 22:22:53 EDT   he acculates within a TR right./ 05/30/2002 22:22:57 EDT   or distributes? 05/30/2002 22:23:04 EDT   hold on zo 05/30/2002 22:23:06 EDT   User [rudy] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:23:08 EDT   I will explain 05/30/2002 22:23:22 EDT   ok 05/30/2002 22:23:31 EDT   sorry 05/30/2002 22:23:36 EDT   he doesnt KNOW thew news 05/30/2002 22:23:52 EDT   BUT he acculmulates based on the info he has or distributes 05/30/2002 22:24:09 EDT   when the news begins to go his way 05/30/2002 22:24:18 EDT   mark up pahse begins by specs and funds 05/30/2002 22:24:29 EDT   lets take a classic example 05/30/2002 22:24:41 EDT   what was the trend in the sand p before sept 11 05/30/2002 22:24:43 EDT   daily/ 05/30/2002 22:24:57 EDT   i believe it was in a TR 05/30/2002 22:24:59 EDT   down 05/30/2002 22:25:02 EDT   down right/. 05/30/2002 22:25:18 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 22:25:20 EDT   WHAT WILL CAUSE A AMRKET TO BOTTOM ? 05/30/2002 22:25:26 EDT   sorry on the caps 05/30/2002 22:25:33 EDT   a Selling climax 05/30/2002 22:25:40 EDT   but if a dailt cliamx 05/30/2002 22:25:50 EDT   support should hold on the weekly or monthly chart? 05/30/2002 22:25:55 EDT   worse case negative picture 05/30/2002 22:25:55 EDT   right? 05/30/2002 22:26:01 EDT   right 05/30/2002 22:26:01 EDT   g nite 05/30/2002 22:26:05 EDT   User [Kent] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:26:09 EDT   night kent 05/30/2002 22:26:19 EDT   User [lucy] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:26:46 EDT   well did anyone know what was to happne on sept 11? 05/30/2002 22:26:48 EDT   05/30/2002 22:26:56 EDT   Nope 05/30/2002 22:27:00 EDT   no 05/30/2002 22:27:00 EDT   n 05/30/2002 22:27:04 EDT   BUT the market had a SC on the daily 05/30/2002 22:27:09 EDT   right at the monthly support 05/30/2002 22:27:10 EDT   maybe a few Al Queda types 05/30/2002 22:27:18 EDT   did the cm know about the sept 11 news? 05/30/2002 22:27:20 EDT   No 05/30/2002 22:27:21 EDT   true elmer 05/30/2002 22:27:30 EDT   But he knew an event should happen to cause a SC 05/30/2002 22:27:56 EDT   there are alwasy some that know right elmer 05/30/2002 22:28:07 EDT   On 9/11 didn't the CM's get killed as well as the specs and funds? 05/30/2002 22:28:12 EDT   beans had a SC 3 yrs ago 05/30/2002 22:28:18 EDT   and now mark up 05/30/2002 22:28:27 EDT   did the CM know about argentian problems now 05/30/2002 22:28:31 EDT   No 05/30/2002 22:28:38 EDT   why is that zoo? 05/30/2002 22:28:47 EDT   no zoo, the cm made ooodles of cash :) 05/30/2002 22:28:54 EDT   you'e saying they were short before hand? 05/30/2002 22:29:00 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 22:29:12 EDT   welll then that was just luck, wasn't it? 05/30/2002 22:29:20 EDT   nope zoo 05/30/2002 22:29:42 EDT   what if the situation was reversed and they were long going into 9/11 05/30/2002 22:29:53 EDT   remember zoo the market was already bear before 9-11 05/30/2002 22:29:55 EDT   the CM does that all the time in both directions 05/30/2002 22:30:20 EDT   I know but after it went down heavily before bottoming 05/30/2002 22:30:23 EDT   do cm lose money yes they do 05/30/2002 22:30:35 EDT   the key was zoo 05/30/2002 22:30:44 EDT   is that the market was breaking BEFORE sept 11 05/30/2002 22:30:52 EDT   the sept 11 event cause a Selling climax 05/30/2002 22:30:58 EDT   since the trend was down 05/30/2002 22:31:04 EDT   I must assumme the cm was short 05/30/2002 22:31:12 EDT   and waited for the sc to cover 05/30/2002 22:31:18 EDT   ok, so we were in a bear market and 9/11 was the climax, so the cms were short? 05/30/2002 22:31:29 EDT   let me give u another 05/30/2002 22:31:37 EDT   example will help u 05/30/2002 22:31:44 EDT   I can talk on this because I was long 05/30/2002 22:31:48 EDT   got out a tad early 05/30/2002 22:31:53 EDT   thats right zoo, they covered on the SC 05/30/2002 22:31:58 EDT   I can understand that, but I still think they got lucky. 05/30/2002 22:31:58 EDT   but I told U thi BEFORE the news 05/30/2002 22:32:23 EDT   hey I know a few millionaires from the 1987 crash who sold rather than bought 05/30/2002 22:32:23 EDT   IF you can call 5000 dead lucky 05/30/2002 22:32:34 EDT   so if Im that luckt good for me 05/30/2002 22:32:44 EDT   Gary, what makes the SC stop at weekly or monthly support? Is it simply the CM using that point as a target to take final profits and then begin a buying campaign? 05/30/2002 22:32:46 EDT   U miss the point 05/30/2002 22:33:01 EDT   they buy on the sc elemer 05/30/2002 22:33:15 EDT   they get into the bying mode during the TR Not sc 05/30/2002 22:33:30 EDT   sorry, thinking they are covering there 05/30/2002 22:33:33 EDT   let me give u a great recent example 05/30/2002 22:33:39 EDT   in which I tld u all about 05/30/2002 22:33:45 EDT   and how news made it rally 05/30/2002 22:33:52 EDT   ready? 05/30/2002 22:33:55 EDT   does anyone know? 05/30/2002 22:34:01 EDT   go 05/30/2002 22:34:03 EDT   rice? 05/30/2002 22:34:09 EDT   yes :) 05/30/2002 22:34:09 EDT   oil 05/30/2002 22:34:13 EDT   greg u win 05/30/2002 22:34:14 EDT   :) 05/30/2002 22:34:18 EDT   yea yea rice 05/30/2002 22:34:25 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 22:34:28 EDT   what is is the news in rice that caused this rally? 05/30/2002 22:34:29 EDT   sorry excited 05/30/2002 22:34:42 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 22:34:42 EDT   anyone know? 05/30/2002 22:34:45 EDT   beans up? 05/30/2002 22:34:50 EDT   New sushi bar expansion? 05/30/2002 22:34:54 EDT   george is chinese 05/30/2002 22:34:54 EDT   bad weather? 05/30/2002 22:34:58 EDT   so he likes rice 05/30/2002 22:34:59 EDT   i don't know 05/30/2002 22:35:04 EDT   Nope 05/30/2002 22:35:05 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 22:35:16 EDT   lots of it:) 05/30/2002 22:35:16 EDT   have u heard about pakistan and india? 05/30/2002 22:35:22 EDT   y 05/30/2002 22:35:23 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 22:35:26 EDT   . 05/30/2002 22:35:33 EDT   I sent u a chart on rice 05/30/2002 22:35:37 EDT   and I said accumaltion 05/30/2002 22:35:43 EDT   I said it can go to 500 05/30/2002 22:35:46 EDT   right? 05/30/2002 22:35:50 EDT   y 05/30/2002 22:35:52 EDT   r 05/30/2002 22:35:53 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 22:35:55 EDT   r 05/30/2002 22:35:57 EDT   i said this at 365 area 05/30/2002 22:36:04 EDT   they are there on the archives 05/30/2002 22:36:06 EDT   r 05/30/2002 22:36:09 EDT   so it isnt hindsight 05/30/2002 22:36:12 EDT   thats right 05/30/2002 22:36:15 EDT   at contract lows 05/30/2002 22:36:25 EDT   Was rice up today? 05/30/2002 22:36:28 EDT   the news was that rice was over abundant 05/30/2002 22:36:33 EDT   by a bunch zoo 05/30/2002 22:36:37 EDT   and that US rice is too exp for the work market 05/30/2002 22:36:55 EDT   at the lows the markets news was bearish 05/30/2002 22:37:04 EDT   i sent this charg many times 05/30/2002 22:37:14 EDT   thr market moved up sharply the last few days 05/30/2002 22:37:32 EDT   the news Now is that the potientail fighting india pakistan 05/30/2002 22:37:54 EDT   will cause rice shipments to be delayed as they grow rice in that region 05/30/2002 22:38:10 EDT   so it forced the price UP based on that " news" 05/30/2002 22:38:34 EDT   i like rice 05/30/2002 22:38:38 EDT   how did I know about the potientail war? 05/30/2002 22:38:46 EDT   how did the cm know 05/30/2002 22:39:00 EDT   prob didnt BUT market action told u accumlation 05/30/2002 22:39:00 EDT   you didnt and neither did the CM 05/30/2002 22:39:04 EDT   and to be long 05/30/2002 22:39:13 EDT   then the :news" cause the funds and specs to buy 05/30/2002 22:39:27 EDT   so it isnt that a CM Knows the news 05/30/2002 22:39:30 EDT   BUT 05/30/2002 22:39:54 EDT   he accumaulates and or distributes 05/30/2002 22:40:03 EDT   and the News seems to support his campiagn 05/30/2002 22:40:14 EDT   So if the news was the opposite, re: India Pakistan, would they simply spin it in a different way to help their cause 05/30/2002 22:40:43 EDT   no zoo, some other news would've come out to support his accum 05/30/2002 22:40:53 EDT   maybe zoo 05/30/2002 22:40:58 EDT   but the point is 05/30/2002 22:41:08 EDT   that the action told u to be long 05/30/2002 22:41:26 EDT   or price might have just stayed in a TR and the CM made money scalping up and down the range 05/30/2002 22:41:38 EDT   RIGHT!!!!!!!!!! 05/30/2002 22:41:40 EDT   05/30/2002 22:41:50 EDT   if there was No pak india move 05/30/2002 22:42:05 EDT   the market woudl have stayd in a TR 05/30/2002 22:42:10 EDT   awaiting NEWS 05/30/2002 22:42:25 EDT   then the next bullish news woud have rallied rice 05/30/2002 22:42:28 EDT   like a typoon 05/30/2002 22:42:31 EDT   or somthing 05/30/2002 22:42:46 EDT   so the cm accumualtes and awaits bullish news to mark up 05/30/2002 22:42:49 EDT   and vice versa 05/30/2002 22:42:56 EDT   the cm short s and P 05/30/2002 22:42:59 EDT   and bad news wouldn't hurt it much? 05/30/2002 22:43:02 EDT   awaits bad news 05/30/2002 22:43:06 EDT   like sept 11 05/30/2002 22:43:13 EDT   covers on the SC 05/30/2002 22:43:16 EDT   No zoo 05/30/2002 22:43:22 EDT   because the CMM will BUY more 05/30/2002 22:43:27 EDT   and buy the funds sells 05/30/2002 22:43:35 EDT   because he is making a bullish camplaingn 05/30/2002 22:43:43 EDT   and will buy the sells 05/30/2002 22:43:49 EDT   I will give u another example 05/30/2002 22:43:50 EDT   ok 05/30/2002 22:43:58 EDT   aircondtioning stocks 05/30/2002 22:44:01 EDT   CM is playing an odds game that the market will move, based on the better info he has (compared to us little guys), but if news doesn't support a move, it just remains in the TR 05/30/2002 22:44:04 EDT   I see what you're saying it 's just hard to believe 05/30/2002 22:44:08 EDT   if there is any 05/30/2002 22:44:22 EDT   American Standard 05/30/2002 22:44:25 EDT   zoo it is because u were taught other stuff 05/30/2002 22:44:34 EDT   money talks and BS walks 05/30/2002 22:44:43 EDT   and the cm has money and controls markets many times 05/30/2002 22:44:56 EDT   I didnt say manipulate I said contraol 05/30/2002 22:45:00 EDT   sometimes manipulate 05/30/2002 22:45:03 EDT   like enron 05/30/2002 22:45:07 EDT   and these are all wycoffs ideas from the 20s and 30s? 05/30/2002 22:45:16 EDT   yes zoo 05/30/2002 22:45:18 EDT   again, who is this cm with all the money--not funds or specs, not little guy? 05/30/2002 22:45:23 EDT   can an air condtion stock rally sharply in winter? 05/30/2002 22:45:35 EDT   I will exaplin thaty in a min pat 05/30/2002 22:45:41 EDT   not likely 05/30/2002 22:45:44 EDT   not without a temperature inversion 05/30/2002 22:45:49 EDT   from the teens to 20's 05/30/2002 22:45:54 EDT   shortage of freon?? 05/30/2002 22:45:55 EDT   he died early 30's 05/30/2002 22:46:00 EDT   right elmer 05/30/2002 22:46:13 EDT   so he may accumaullate stock in december 05/30/2002 22:46:22 EDT   he observed the great traders of the day ... and the methods of the greats hasn't changed 05/30/2002 22:46:26 EDT   he KNOWS no bullish news will come BUT he buuys 05/30/2002 22:46:29 EDT   actualy zoo, this stuff has been around for as long as there has been a market of anything to trade, wyckoff was the first to write it down as it applies to stocks\\ 05/30/2002 22:46:32 EDT   because he anticaptes 05/30/2002 22:46:47 EDT   a bullish move in summer 05/30/2002 22:46:53 EDT   doesnt know the exact reason 05/30/2002 22:47:03 EDT   but he feels that the amket will be bullish 05/30/2002 22:47:06 EDT   maybe weather 05/30/2002 22:47:12 EDT   maybe something el;se right? 05/30/2002 22:47:21 EDT   No one buys AC stocks in winter 05/30/2002 22:47:26 EDT   User [jim] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:47:30 EDT   but he accumaltes 05/30/2002 22:47:32 EDT   he has his postion 05/30/2002 22:47:41 EDT   then in april 05/30/2002 22:47:44 EDT   forecast comes out 05/30/2002 22:47:50 EDT   that it will be a hot summer 05/30/2002 22:47:55 EDT   guess what happnes? 05/30/2002 22:48:05 EDT   did he know about a hot summer coming NO 05/30/2002 22:48:09 EDT   BUT he accumalted 05/30/2002 22:48:12 EDT   and was right 05/30/2002 22:48:34 EDT   understand? 05/30/2002 22:48:45 EDT   well, that is an easy example 05/30/2002 22:48:46 EDT   the cm pat, is a group or culmination of more informed traders with of course alot more money and they know more than anyone the conditions of the respective market they are in 05/30/2002 22:48:51 EDT   but yes I get it 05/30/2002 22:49:01 EDT   Does he quit selling to help the mark up? 05/30/2002 22:49:14 EDT   it is easy because i want to keep it simple BUT it worsk in all markets that way zoo 05/30/2002 22:49:20 EDT   many times more complicated 05/30/2002 22:49:28 EDT   yes Joe 05/30/2002 22:49:29 EDT   thks. George 05/30/2002 22:49:41 EDT   I didnt forgte u pat :) 05/30/2002 22:49:50 EDT   he buys in the TR 05/30/2002 22:49:59 EDT   k 05/30/2002 22:50:08 EDT   and when mark up begins he waits for the bc to liqudate 05/30/2002 22:50:18 EDT   Now george is right 05/30/2002 22:50:32 EDT   Were you short in 1987 Gary, and if yes, why? 05/30/2002 22:50:39 EDT   the cm is simply all the great minds and interest in the markests the culimation of thier thoughs and trades 05/30/2002 22:50:59 EDT   wyckoff said 05/30/2002 22:51:07 EDT   that is all the same specs were on the same side 05/30/2002 22:51:16 EDT   they would overwhelm the cm 05/30/2002 22:51:28 EDT   that will never happne as specs are alwasya ll over the place 05/30/2002 22:51:34 EDT   zoo I will get there 05/30/2002 22:51:46 EDT   so the cargils 05/30/2002 22:51:58 EDT   george soros 05/30/2002 22:52:02 EDT   golman sachs 05/30/2002 22:52:07 EDT   are considered cms 05/30/2002 22:52:12 EDT   goldman 05/30/2002 22:52:22 EDT   gotcha 05/30/2002 22:52:26 EDT   does cargil know more about corn then us? 05/30/2002 22:52:37 EDT   maybe a little 05/30/2002 22:52:42 EDT   if u knew cargil was LOng all grains would u buy./ 05/30/2002 22:52:50 EDT   people who know their industry 05/30/2002 22:53:00 EDT   right 05/30/2002 22:53:09 EDT   pat, the cm's are "those in the know with the dogh" as zack likes to say :) 05/30/2002 22:53:12 EDT   of course u would buy 05/30/2002 22:53:12 EDT   why would u 05/30/2002 22:53:20 EDT   but how can someone have that kind of knowledge in an index like the s&P 05/30/2002 22:53:23 EDT   because u know that they know more than U 05/30/2002 22:53:32 EDT   I ma getting there zoo 05/30/2002 22:53:51 EDT   lets take 87 crash 05/30/2002 22:53:59 EDT   i;m beginning to see the light 05/30/2002 22:54:00 EDT   I was a scalper than not a postion trader 05/30/2002 22:54:06 EDT   and yes i did make money 05/30/2002 22:54:14 EDT   what was the trend before the 87 crash? 05/30/2002 22:54:24 EDT   up 05/30/2002 22:54:26 EDT   down i believe 05/30/2002 22:54:27 EDT   up 05/30/2002 22:54:40 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 22:54:46 EDT   dn 05/30/2002 22:54:49 EDT   up 05/30/2002 22:54:53 EDT   the market was breaking a bit before the crash 05/30/2002 22:55:01 EDT   a week before 05/30/2002 22:55:17 EDT   thks==can;t wait 05/30/2002 22:55:34 EDT   User [George] left forum. 05/30/2002 22:55:37 EDT   so the market had a sc 05/30/2002 22:55:43 EDT   in 87 05/30/2002 22:55:49 EDT   I will go over that day next wek 05/30/2002 22:55:55 EDT   and explain to u why it happned 05/30/2002 22:55:59 EDT   okay if u wish 05/30/2002 22:56:06 EDT   as I was in the floor at the time 05/30/2002 22:56:10 EDT   were you on the floor that day< will you tell the story, must be fascinating 05/30/2002 22:56:10 EDT   yes, that would be great 05/30/2002 22:56:27 EDT   it was a facsianting day 05/30/2002 22:56:39 EDT   I have told the story many times in the past archives 05/30/2002 22:56:47 EDT   ok 05/30/2002 22:56:50 EDT   so the cm has more news info ect 05/30/2002 22:56:50 EDT   then us 05/30/2002 22:56:53 EDT   yeah--my stomach hit the floor 05/30/2002 22:57:11 EDT   so he uses this info more than us to his advanatage 05/30/2002 22:57:19 EDT   lets take a recent example 05/30/2002 22:57:30 EDT   have u heard of the stock enron? 05/30/2002 22:57:47 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 22:58:00 EDT   how do u think sold this stock in the 70 dollar range? 05/30/2002 22:58:15 EDT   y 05/30/2002 22:58:17 EDT   insiders 05/30/2002 22:58:33 EDT   Arthur Andersen 05/30/2002 22:58:38 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 22:58:45 EDT   yes 05/30/2002 22:58:46 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 22:58:58 EDT   analyists 05/30/2002 22:59:02 EDT   well, it wasn't the public 05/30/2002 22:59:08 EDT   y 05/30/2002 22:59:12 EDT   ken lay and the rest of the board 05/30/2002 22:59:16 EDT   well someone knew about that stoick right/ 05/30/2002 22:59:32 EDT   so the cm or people in the know sold right? 05/30/2002 22:59:41 EDT   r 05/30/2002 22:59:44 EDT   would option volume and open interest tip you off on a stock like that 05/30/2002 22:59:44 EDT   in this case it was illegal BUT 05/30/2002 22:59:44 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 22:59:53 EDT   there are cms in all marksts 05/30/2002 23:00:05 EDT   so the cm Knew the news before us 05/30/2002 23:00:08 EDT   huh 05/30/2002 23:00:09 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:09 EDT   for sure 05/30/2002 23:00:09 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:09 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:09 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:11 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:11 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:11 EDT   05/30/2002 23:00:19 EDT   so there a re alwasy others that know more than us 05/30/2002 23:00:22 EDT   sorry 05/30/2002 23:00:29 EDT   so how can we make money loike them 05/30/2002 23:00:33 EDT   that is why we are here 05/30/2002 23:00:42 EDT   by watching market action\\ 05/30/2002 23:00:53 EDT   It's not easy though 05/30/2002 23:00:57 EDT   price width and volume 05/30/2002 23:01:05 EDT   right 05/30/2002 23:01:08 EDT   thks 05/30/2002 23:01:11 EDT   we can follow 05/30/2002 23:01:18 EDT   thme BY price action and volume NO news 05/30/2002 23:01:19 EDT   it is easy zoo after you learn how 05/30/2002 23:01:27 EDT   I bet if u look at enron 05/30/2002 23:01:43 EDT   u will see a BC or u will see distribtuon 05/30/2002 23:01:47 EDT   zoo it is that easy 05/30/2002 23:01:55 EDT   our minds make it hard 05/30/2002 23:02:01 EDT   just like learning to read, difficult at first, sounding out words, then after a while it gets easier and easier 05/30/2002 23:02:05 EDT   U dont need news 05/30/2002 23:02:09 EDT   the cm will interpert news that way 05/30/2002 23:02:19 EDT   do u want proof? 05/30/2002 23:02:36 EDT   sure :) 05/30/2002 23:02:41 EDT   a stock has record earning s it goes up many times right? 05/30/2002 23:02:49 EDT   r 05/30/2002 23:02:52 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 23:03:05 EDT   why is it a stock has record earning and that is a top or it breaks? 05/30/2002 23:03:29 EDT   someone is selling it 05/30/2002 23:03:40 EDT   do u think a spec or fund would sell on bullish news? 05/30/2002 23:03:43 EDT   doesnt make sense 05/30/2002 23:03:55 EDT   so the cm is interperting the news as bearish 05/30/2002 23:03:58 EDT   if it breaks 05/30/2002 23:04:11 EDT   if it rallies the cm is long and specs and funds take it hihger 05/30/2002 23:04:32 EDT   u know what the big interest are doing by price action and volume 05/30/2002 23:04:36 EDT   thats it 05/30/2002 23:04:40 EDT   No head and sholders NO rsi 05/30/2002 23:04:45 EDT   No gimmiscks 05/30/2002 23:04:49 EDT   no tricks 05/30/2002 23:04:52 EDT   just hard work 05/30/2002 23:04:56 EDT   no mechanice 05/30/2002 23:05:04 EDT   mechanics 05/30/2002 23:05:08 EDT   not many people knopw how to look at volume 05/30/2002 23:05:22 EDT   they see volume BUT dont know how to trade it 05/30/2002 23:05:47 EDT   I know it is foriegn to u 05/30/2002 23:05:51 EDT   and u may not see it 05/30/2002 23:05:55 EDT   BUT its true 05/30/2002 23:06:12 EDT   do u think bill gates knows microsoft? 05/30/2002 23:06:19 EDT   def 05/30/2002 23:06:44 EDT   y 05/30/2002 23:06:59 EDT   he better LOL 05/30/2002 23:07:03 EDT   well if he sold that stock 05/30/2002 23:07:07 EDT   and u owned it 05/30/2002 23:07:11 EDT   wouldnt u want to knwo 05/30/2002 23:07:19 EDT   of course 05/30/2002 23:07:21 EDT   y! 05/30/2002 23:07:43 EDT   why dont u know that a big interest sold a stock till later 05/30/2002 23:07:49 EDT   they dont want u to know 05/30/2002 23:08:14 EDT   there are alwasy others that KNOW more and act on it 05/30/2002 23:08:31 EDT   for new comers 05/30/2002 23:08:41 EDT   i know this sounds very hard to comprehand 05/30/2002 23:08:50 EDT   and may soud like noinsense 05/30/2002 23:08:57 EDT   buit I promise u 05/30/2002 23:09:05 EDT   that if u understand how markets work 05/30/2002 23:09:11 EDT   it will help u with market action 05/30/2002 23:09:17 EDT   and possibly making money 05/30/2002 23:09:27 EDT   the glossary will help 05/30/2002 23:09:39 EDT   markets move up and down by large interest 05/30/2002 23:09:43 EDT   CMs 05/30/2002 23:09:49 EDT   that is an easy concpet right? 05/30/2002 23:09:57 EDT   y 05/30/2002 23:10:03 EDT   true 05/30/2002 23:10:07 EDT   y 05/30/2002 23:10:08 EDT   if a large interest buys and is long the market gen rallies 05/30/2002 23:10:10 EDT   I;ve been here two weeks and it's starting to mesh 05/30/2002 23:10:18 EDT   and vice versa 05/30/2002 23:10:25 EDT   thats great pat :) 05/30/2002 23:10:29 EDT   i have been here 22 yrs pat 05/30/2002 23:10:34 EDT   and it starting to mesh too :) 05/30/2002 23:10:39 EDT   LOL 05/30/2002 23:10:42 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 23:10:49 EDT   as I said there is someone that comes to this chat 05/30/2002 23:10:53 EDT   lol 05/30/2002 23:11:03 EDT   and his uncle I beleive has been studying wyckoff for 40 yrs!!!!! 05/30/2002 23:11:14 EDT   and has been very sucesful 05/30/2002 23:11:46 EDT   so it isnt me 05/30/2002 23:11:51 EDT   it is wyckoff 05/30/2002 23:11:57 EDT   I met this persons uncle 05/30/2002 23:12:00 EDT   uncle Jed knows wycoff?!?!?! 05/30/2002 23:12:14 EDT   and it was a joy to know that wyckoff was sucessful for jhim 05/30/2002 23:12:16 EDT   sorry, 05/30/2002 23:12:21 EDT   thjis person starting tradng this month 05/30/2002 23:12:24 EDT   How many years had he studied when he started to be successful? ;) 05/30/2002 23:12:25 EDT   and has made money on wyckoff trades 05/30/2002 23:12:37 EDT   I'll have to work fast--don't have 40 yrs left 05/30/2002 23:12:52 EDT   Same here Pat! 05/30/2002 23:12:57 EDT   the raschke site gary mentioned earlier is http://www.mrci.com/lbr/ for anyone interested 05/30/2002 23:13:01 EDT   not sure pat 05/30/2002 23:13:08 EDT   thank u eieleen 05/30/2002 23:13:21 EDT   this person said I can mention him 05/30/2002 23:13:22 EDT   there are also some articles up there, including a short one on whckoff 05/30/2002 23:13:24 EDT   so I will 05/30/2002 23:14:00 EDT   Greg 05/30/2002 23:14:03 EDT   :) 05/30/2002 23:14:13 EDT   would u like to say something about wyckoff and your uncles thoughts 05/30/2002 23:14:27 EDT   wyckoff is the only way to trade 05/30/2002 23:14:31 EDT   greg are you the one with the great rice trade awhile back, maybe 6 weeks ago? 05/30/2002 23:14:47 EDT   my uncle is a master at this if it wasnt for him i wouldve \\ 05/30/2002 23:14:55 EDT   given up trying to learn 05/30/2002 23:15:01 EDT   to trade a long time ago 05/30/2002 23:15:24 EDT   i start5ed my first trade on may 1 05/30/2002 23:15:28 EDT   this month 05/30/2002 23:15:41 EDT   and am very pleased with my results 05/30/2002 23:15:48 EDT   if all goes well i will be able 05/30/2002 23:15:58 EDT   to trade full time with in 6 months 05/30/2002 23:16:10 EDT   great 05/30/2002 23:16:15 EDT   You've been trading one month greg? 05/30/2002 23:16:20 EDT   yup 05/30/2002 23:16:30 EDT   and took some losses the first week 05/30/2002 23:16:31 EDT   congrat! 05/30/2002 23:16:34 EDT   what? stocks? futures? otpions? 05/30/2002 23:16:45 EDT   and i am still way in the black 05/30/2002 23:16:51 EDT   no looking back for me 05/30/2002 23:17:00 EDT   its in my blood now LOL 05/30/2002 23:17:10 EDT   good for you greg, that's terrific! 05/30/2002 23:17:12 EDT   i am trading comomodities 05/30/2002 23:17:22 EDT   toI didnt want to have a commercail 05/30/2002 23:17:25 EDT   that's great 05/30/2002 23:17:28 EDT   congrats greg 05/30/2002 23:17:30 EDT   Well, good luck to you Greg, but be carfull. A month isn't enough time to tell if you are good or just lucky. There is a large standard deviation. 05/30/2002 23:17:33 EDT   :) 05/30/2002 23:17:34 EDT   but greg has worked hard 05/30/2002 23:17:38 EDT   ok gary 05/30/2002 23:17:46 EDT   do i get my cut now :) LOL 05/30/2002 23:17:51 EDT   there is zoo u r right 05/30/2002 23:18:01 EDT   :O 05/30/2002 23:18:01 EDT   but this is marathon NOT a sprint 05/30/2002 23:18:05 EDT   check;s in mail 05/30/2002 23:18:09 EDT   u can have losing days weeks and months 05/30/2002 23:18:16 EDT   but iut in the long run 05/30/2002 23:18:30 EDT   if u understand markets I beleiev u will be sucessful 05/30/2002 23:18:41 EDT   u get your cut by making money 05/30/2002 23:18:46 EDT   u r right zoo, i will lose at times, but in the long run i will do very well :) 05/30/2002 23:18:47 EDT   I can see that my approach has perhaps been all wrong 05/30/2002 23:18:51 EDT   not for me 05/30/2002 23:19:03 EDT   wyckoff is the way to look at markets 05/30/2002 23:19:12 EDT   if I didnt think so i would trade soemthing else 05/30/2002 23:19:20 EDT   Who wrote what is on the CD, Gary? 05/30/2002 23:19:27 EDT   I do this for free becaus ei beleieve in it 05/30/2002 23:19:45 EDT   my uncle has been trading wyckoff techniques for 40 years, the stuff works 05/30/2002 23:19:51 EDT   an expert in any field will have down cycles but not to the extent of a novice 05/30/2002 23:19:51 EDT   pleae email knorris@ltg-trading.com and she will tell u all about it okay zoo 05/30/2002 23:20:06 EDT   correct pat 05/30/2002 23:20:22 EDT   mcdonalds may lose money 1 qtr 1 yr 05/30/2002 23:20:27 EDT   but obver all they do ell 05/30/2002 23:20:32 EDT   same with trading 05/30/2002 23:20:44 EDT   good session--nite all--thks Gary 05/30/2002 23:20:46 EDT   Gary - Thanks for a great class. I'm looking forward to reading the log tommorrow. Gotta go now. Nite. 05/30/2002 23:20:53 EDT   if u make proper and right trades I beeliev u will make it 05/30/2002 23:20:58 EDT   05/30/2002 23:21:02 EDT   ty 05/30/2002 23:21:06 EDT   any othr questions? 05/30/2002 23:21:12 EDT   Gary, how much do you anticipate the s and p will rally over the next several days? what is resistance level? 05/30/2002 23:21:12 EDT   bie guys 05/30/2002 23:21:17 EDT   User [Joe H] left forum. 05/30/2002 23:21:17 EDT   otheriiwse I wills ee u all next tuesday night 05/30/2002 23:21:26 EDT   User [pat] left forum. 05/30/2002 23:21:26 EDT   there is alot to know but i m pateint 05/30/2002 23:21:27 EDT   This was a very interesting class tonite. 05/30/2002 23:21:30 EDT   nite all 05/30/2002 23:21:33 EDT   thanks again for another good one gary 05/30/2002 23:21:35 EDT   1095 ron 05/30/2002 23:21:37 EDT   Nite all. Thx Gary and nice meeting you Greg. 05/30/2002 23:21:39 EDT   thanks gary 05/30/2002 23:21:44 EDT   thanks gary. night all 05/30/2002 23:21:45 EDT   Thanks Gary, and good nite all of you 05/30/2002 23:21:48 EDT   User [Shar] left forum. 05/30/2002 23:21:53 EDT   I have been teeacjhing this for a long time 05/30/2002 23:21:57 EDT   cu Tuesday 05/30/2002 23:21:58 EDT   be patient I will help 05/30/2002 23:22:07 EDT   I will answer all questions 05/30/2002 23:22:10 EDT   thanks gary, and goodnight to everyone 05/30/2002 23:22:15 EDT   it takes time to learn these techniques 05/30/2002 23:22:17 EDT   good night have a safe weekend :) 05/30/2002 23:22:19 EDT   User [Jairo] left forum. 05/30/2002 23:22:23 EDT   be patient with yourself 05/30/2002 23:22:24 EDT   User [gary fullett] left forum.