so I am asking questions She is sitting in front of quite a few screens! and I want to learn from somone who can help with wyckoff Define Ego Is that Confidence included also a fantastic data system that shows all the stocks, indices, indicators live! I am talking about her becasue she follows wyckoff I just wanted everyone to know which market -> increasing the ability to act on knowledge will increase profits yes it was bought for my clients and liquidated tooday So do you guys feel Meal is the strength still ? Of the Bean family meal should lead oil Joe if bullish Meal is telling us that the beans are still bullish despite the recent washout. long meal short oil thats what Inever got in a bullish market works very well generally The monthly chart looks worrysome--but if the lows of May hold---we are off to the races! Thought primary importance was the coveted oil So I understand Stockgirls point no Joe...for beans, it is meal nope joe yes fran :) But it seems to lag behind the other 2 ok, thanks thats what stumps me amos what did the volume on this break say about the trend of the beans>? and grains in general? with beans This is a good example about linda--she was watching the correction intraday in the spoos but the Nasdaq and transport held--and that prevented her from getting bearish.... Joe, they are always spreading in that complex....does make the markets a bit foggy at times relating one market to another...syntheesiczing info in such a manner that it sifts the noise and coming to the correct conclusion is part of good trading ok fran, thanks see why im scared of it lol what amos said about deratives being related yesterday, joe, made enormous sense I have along long way to go to understand that corelation Amos linda said a similar thing today, amos just repeated it yes I got it thats talent but also a lot of study agreed spreads and how they relate to markets are very very important like peanut butter and jelly Gary ? if the s and p are atrong but also what amos said yesterday about looking for patterns across the sisters but the nasdaq is stronger the momentum This is a very serious point! is uo up one should buy the Nasadq over the s and p this is why this game is NOT a game of three outcomes--but of many. To be able to interpret correctly relationships among many variables is NOT a human strength. Espcially when the correlations are not alwyas sensible or rational. i had an image yesterday amos when you were telling the story of the sisters thats it, I dont understand how one can make sense of irrational market behavior, while rationalizing another fraction of a different market then trading accordingly like a ship in the night and trying to get the right course by reading the night skies beans great fibo....what a worrier lol :) how old is Linda ? how long she traded ? User [mrj] left forum on Thu Jun 01 22:31:52 EDT 2000 she's inher forties. she's been trading since 1981 thanks with this weakness in the grains should we be looking for support to buy or a rlly to sell resistance gary, question please Please ask can we look at buy or sell without knowing our time frame first? when the market moves Amos, almost forgot, isnt the 50 MA a key point for a market to enter Mark up been selling rallies u mean in general or in the grains? NO Joe, not according to Wyckoff, he despised mechanical systems. in this particular example. ok in other words if i want a long trade grain example stock girl User [gtb /216.228.37.24] joined forum on Thu Jun 01 22:34:41 EDT 2000 but i think the market may sell off again, wouldn't i wait? User [mrj /206.251.171.148] joined forum on Thu Jun 01 22:34:50 EDT 2000 but if i were short i could position myself according to market trend short term? hi gtb wb mrj...hi gtb Yes I think the markets needs to accumalte hi gtb wb mrj hi ths User [lavona] left forum on Thu Jun 01 22:35:19 EDT 2000 yes very true so wouldn't my time frame affect what kind of trade i want to do right now? Stockgirl, you could put on a strangle, or straddle with options if your ify on something my ? is not the particulars yet, joe. User [fibo] left forum on Thu Jun 01 22:36:28 EDT 2000 k I undersatnd the dilimana i'm just trying to find out if my time frame determines how i am going to read the chart for s/r short term the grains are negative and ntermediate as well but longer term they still look okay so on a short term basis so as a trader i have to decide whether i like short term trading or longer term I think sellinfg a rally into resisatnce is the proper trade yes of course if u look at a 30 minute chart u cant exopect the same move like a weeklu chart wyckoff works in ALL time frames the longer the prepration period the LARGER the move Wyckoff was a slave! so then can you say how the current support resistence you were starting to talk about comes into play in terms of time frame for a trade? so short term action must be traded as such amos, elaborate, please. u cant expect a large move based on a 5 minute chart !!!!!! amos...tell stock girl about level of knowledge when she gets there, I will yes, gary, i agree. poor joke, forgive me so the s/r we're looking at isn't necessarily for an immediate trade but a trend? so time frame and perspective is CRITICAL to trading properly that will show the longer term move? First look at definate, then narrow it down to current as far as support and resistence I look at it for both stock girl yes, that is what i am trying to establish I buy support and have an objective to where it can go based on the time reference sorry gary, i didn't understand what joe said andvice versa with resisatnce look at your absolute highs and lows then work your way down the ladder joe means I think look at the whole picture gary, isn't your objective based on a time frame though before you put on the trade? notice the heavy traffic areas then narrow it down to specific entry YES stock girl yes If I buy bonds on a 5 minute chart stockgirl...when in doubt..stay out I am looing for a few ticks and I am OUT if I base it on a 30 min chart my objective is larger Stockgirl, I am amazed at the amount of patience you have but that DOESNT mean that that objective will be met you should become a excellent trader right. so then you take what the market gives you gary? ALWAYS I am a firm believer of that I was taught by ome great traders and they ALWAYS told me close stops on the way up gary? if u r long i stopped the flow of your discussion on s/r i'm done, thank you. and the market doesnt act right get out if u ever have a doubt abou the postion or if soemthing changed get out and wait yes wes please ask stock girl how close? u should always ask yourself when in a trade Gary, is this as true for options if I wasnt in the trade wuould I eneter here if long User [mrj] left forum on Thu Jun 01 22:47:45 EDT 2000 u Hope the market goes up if u have a doubt on why u r long GET OUT keep asking yourself :is the market acting they way it should " iif the ansewer is NO get out yes joe ok wes depends on your tiime frame risk management is important if u have a 10 k account it is different than haveing a 100k account a 1 percent rick on 10 o daily... are your stops (when long) support points or how much you are willing to slip? is 100 bucks on 100k it is 1000 very true I think that is u trade intra day that stops should be More than 400 bucks in most markets generally 300 though what do you mean, gary? Gary If I uesd those in Crude I couldnt trade it about stop loss stockgirl I am talking intraday joe yes is that a lot for the futures markets? sounds a lot to me nite everyone.....thank you for example stock girl nite fran no its not alot at all when people are talking about making 150 or something on a contract intraday 400 dollars in cattle is 100 points n fran that is a fiarly large move in cattle User [fran] left forum on Thu Jun 01 22:52:56 EDT 2000 ok folks I am leaving you good nite all nite amos nightamos night amos than k u night and thanks n a User [amos] left forum on Thu Jun 01 22:53:38 EDT 2000 about making 150 dollars stock girl? yes 150 dollars is a small slippage in the s and Ps if u trade most markets short term 300 risk is a decnt risk oh, i don't mean the sps necessarily it is 10 ticks in the bonds u can trade s and p with 300 risk but people trade like 1 cc contract and make a couple of hundred dollars emini yes not big ones yes thta is true about cocoa I trade this every day so then doesn't their stop have to be a lot closer than a 400 dollar loss? Only when your up you tighten it yes stock girl in cocoa example yes to protect doesn't make sense joe I was talking about markets in general thank you gary 300-440 risk is good when intraday trading Tighten stop when market moves in your desired direction 400 risk in oats is a month move !!!!!! any market or the s&p gary how often do you see a gap over a stop? the s and p slippage is about 100 bucks !!!!! if not much more gary...i use 2x ave volatility (10 b) i guess my question is why are we risking 400 for a marginal return. why isn't the stop in closer to begin with? with night trading u can get out at night wes because you get stoped out Most Brokers, are garbage but many markets gap in the moriing really? stock girl very very great question it was my point about linda Radske she has slippage of 50-1000 points 100 so her risk is more than her reward amos comment was that she pinpoints things so she is more accurate yes wes ok but not large gaps generally when u enter a trade the risk to reward should be at least 3 to 1 that is what is the norm not all the time is you objective met yes i've read that. can you elaborate but that is how u should appraoch it well if I buy cocoa I have a 200 stop what % of retracment for that 3 to1? I would expect the move up to be 400-600 at least it has nothing to do with retracemtn wes difernt idea i guess for me when i trade intraday i want to know where i'm in and where i'm out. yes so how are you going to determine this ratio before putting on the trade? but not all the time do I make 400 i may feel uncomfy and get out witha 100 profit ha By the TIME FRAME by knowing more about the market, knowing its liquidity if I have a 5 min chart I mat risk 2 ticks in bonds to make 6 a 30 minute chart I will risk 4 ticks to make 12 on a daily chart I will risk 10 to make 30 so smaller time frame smaller risk Gary your saying either move my way, or Im out then smaller reward yes. no prep for a move so how do you determine which time frame before the trade? right ? that is why linda has small stops small objectives time frame i think with her also depends on the trade. YES joe yes she will hold a trade overnight or for longer if u look at a 5 min chart your stops and objective must jive Ok, but in trading something like crude, you have to let it breath a little, coffee too u can have a 2 tick stop in bonds when u put the trade on and expect to make 30 ticks gary may i go back a step for a moment? not on a five minute chart she wont but a daily yes yes joe know your market yes stocj girl please if u have a monthly chart linda says she does all her homework the night before your risk is larger reward is largr how can she? then she decides during market hours what can work if she trades the s and ps like she does how does she know how the market will open in the morning so when i do my homework the night before she said that she is bullish for tomorow because of how the nasdaq was performing today what if the amrket opens dow down 100 tomorrow still bullish? then she will rethink, as she did the s&p today what if "news has the Nadaq down big tomorrow? she kept saying it wasn't playing along my point i we all do our charts at night She gets her objective ready, then once she sees what she likes, she makes a move and we all have a feeling about tomorrow but until the market opens up that can all change if news has the nasdaq down tomorrow then either she trades what she sees or stays out if she traades momentum i think my question was going to be a little different how does she know what toorow will bring tomorrow may be a differnt momentum than today but she trades momentuem and momentum for tomorrow has nt happened yt I think the way to trade is too look at support and resisatnce the night before when the market opens he should be in contact with u that's what she looks for and goes o support if your indicators sy BUY u buy if the say sell sell if the amrket doesnt act well at support get out she doesn't trade the first hour i don't think But doesnt everyone do this ? for some of her trades anyway but u dont know how a amrket will react till it gets to that upport or ressiatnce they should Joe I say let the market tell me where it wants to go the market doesnt care about my opinion Be like water I follow the market I dont lead it if it acts weak I sell I was ong wheat today go with the flow I was up 4 cents what if you can't watch intraday? the market acted weak relative too the rest of the grains so I got out 2 higher for the day gary another consideration ? than u cant trade intraday wes have your broker watch for u yes Joe ic no, dont have your broker watch for you, gary I let the market tell me where it wasnts to go like linda what I mean stock girl is this lets say u r in a postion Stockgirl, I'd let Gary babysit mine ifand u r long if the market begins to break tell your broker to call u if u dont ave quotes have when I say watch the broker has Live quotes gary i would say either don't trade intraday or make sure you have your stop in. what happens if your broker has to go to the bathroom and the market suddenly turns? so he shoud inform u when the market moves if u cant watch it i'm only talking intraday, right not other trades he better have an assiatnnt that is why I have an assiatnt a borker should baby sit your postion anyway, i think your first answer to wes was the right one. However, Gary is a broker who goes to bat for you gary...can u use volatility to set stop levels? a broker should always be avaiable to tell u market conditioins if you can't watch yourself intraday, don't try to trade it. Hes mine gary how much capital is needed to trade corn from a daily chart? gary...how many contracts can u baby sit at one time? u can only get an objective i think my point is not about brokers, it's about being responsible for your own trade And hes good So thats why you pre-determine it intraday trading is daytrading. They should a daytrader can't ask the best broker in the world to watch his or her trade. but my broker is human, he could be at gunpoint too because they're trading a pattern or something that makes sense to them