User [gary fullett /152.169.26.96] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:09:08 EST 2000 I shall try again, and I am not good at the social antiques--are there good evening folks sorry I am late was amos behaving? don't those peaple make germany look like the boy scouts you are alive, not late that is true User [Peggy /206.173.161.94] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:09:59 EST 2000 Evening, everyone well are there any questions? good evening peggy evening peggy hi peggy hey, been reading Hutson's book, Chart the Stock Market the wyckoff Method absolutely GREAT amos. since davep asked a question yesterday did u get the book from the website? yes lays things out so clear, like I learned here, but in printed form I justed wanted to make sure the links worked amos can you talk about shorteneing of the upward thrusts I would like to talk about spring and upthrusts as well that was the chapter today!!! if you look at the s and p quarterly chart. You see that we made new highs today. since davep is here But if you look at the close of dec.31.99 you see that, at least the June contract closed at 1503.90. If we close the month of March around that number (plus minus a few handles) then on the daily chart--the market looks awesome. But on the quarterly chart it looks as if nothing was gained and we traded sidways for 3 months. It helps from time to time to use the "line" option on your chart softward. It connects the closes of the bars. SOmetimes it is a good educator (indicator)=--- quarterly charts do put things in perspective it tells you that close to close the market is behvaing differently from what is seems on the bar chart. User [sherri /209.100.189.135] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:15:26 EST 2000 Don't take me wrong-- according to Wyckoff the high and low of the bars is MUCH more which chart software do you use amos? important to measure supply and demand. BUt the close, sometimes tells you hi sherri nter Text Here>where can quarterly charts be obtained? about momentum. And although we rarely talk about momentum in here--it is hi folks good to glance at it from time to time. hi sherri Chris you get it from a vendor of quarterly charts.... can you answer lmarsh and chris please hi sherri I missed lmarshe's q, please repeat. ok thanks what charting software do you use amos? Ah, I am looking at insite which is a cheap version of eSignal which is a piece of C--- User [fibo /204.119.225.154] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:18:12 EST 2000 ok,..thank you hi fibo hi fibo hello everyone But I look almost every day at the elliottwaveinsight.com and tfc for long term charts. hi, Fibo hi fibo top of the evning to you Fibo :-) elliott wave guy uses CQG which is the best. what charting soft ware does fibo use? Hi fibo ensign 6 thanks..we got much needed rain today:-) I will be getting CQG again nest week I believe we dont need rain rain makes grain :) I do true gary we need rain in the cotton belt but not bean and corn fields :) The shortening of a thrust (to continue a subject, if I may) is WYckoff thiws is the driest I have seen since july of 56 continue please amos term for a market that is losing steam. It is a description of an ever so slight change of the balance of supply and demand. that is all Making a new high, or a new low... can be a jump or an upthrust or downthrust. If you are in a range--then making a new high is a "bull/bear trap" the "measuring " of the thrust can give you a hint, at times, as to the nature of the trend. true amos so if a market makes a new high but the range is tight this is suspect? volume? yes, yes this is what I call the CM "stuffing" tarders In order to give a full dissertation of this phenomenon--you really have to look at various examples and study and compare them. We do not have currently examples--so it is an esoteric discussion. but we can undersatnd the concept whena market is going to break out oif a range stuffing traders> that is harsh it should be assosciated with good volume and good price action User [SteveF /209.214.197.136] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:26:15 EST 2000 if the volume/nd Or trading range isnt good this can have the opoosite affect hi steve sometime a market comes to a support resistance level with high volume and it is a stopping volume User [Randy /204.246.241.113] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:26:35 EST 2000 rather than breaking out volume you have to judge a market by its action continue amos volume is a very tricky thing. There is a reason why most people do not want or do not is it the CM that is providing the stopping action? use it correctly. Volume at different phases of the market can represent exactly opposite things. There is a reason why Wyckoff is so rarely used by most system users. There is no Mechanical WYckoff software! Most people want a signal. If w goes over "y" --then I buy. I do not want to THINK. THinking is a effortful endeavor But you must think here. Hey fibo..sorry having server trouble. However, there is a solace becuase then you "am" Cogito Ergo Sum ? i think therefore i am translation? :) ok :) you are the sum of your thoughts and the son of a ???? amos u go Too Colege or somethin? I am three college or to be (a human being) one must THINK him is mighty smart I am sorry, I do not want to a smart alec. I am trying to tell the truth. It is not easy to use Wyckoff because you have it is a good point we like to be stretched, Amos to think all the time--what does that volume mean? is this this or that-- there are no simply solutions. Yes, I am giving you Wyckoff on a strecher why don't mechanical/system users use Wyckoff as FILTER to improve their results? You cannot mix methods (another one of Wyckoff's maxims) if you are mechanical thinking is easy, it is just organizing it that is the problem by definition you do not want to use WYckoff! Sakini, in the "Tea House of the August Moon" gave a good answer to this: He said: Pain gives you thought Thought gives you wisdom. ANd wisdom gives you the power to sustain life." some times thought gives u pain as well as habit, I said that amos any comment on the grain action today? or mental on a weekly basis? Blah, we are waiting to finish March Every one is waiting for 31==planting intentions as if it will change any thing March an unhealthy month or something March is good for turkish how about gold? tobacco? Gold had a daily thrust yesterday and should rally strongly from here. Stop is at 285 did any one have any questions on markets? Cotton has to be studies hard. Is this decline a change of trend or is it a nice washout--this June gold? could be a wonderful exercise here in class-- but we need monthly, weekly, daily the trend in cotton only has been up for the past few months though charts with volume and point and figure charts--to really decipher this market yes eric cotton fell through 1st support today,,.. I wanted to discuss something I started last night for a bit it is when markets test or restest either support or reisistance I have to remid you that my experiences are quite differnt than amos's mine are based from wyckoff principles while U traded on the floor in what respect gary? amos has a longer term perspective many times I will explain frank when I see a amrket at support I buy it with a stop under the next support I generaly will not buy a market that is rallying unless it is for a short term tarde this is a trading flor trader mentality to me if I am wrong i know immediatly when I buy support I ask my self "self is the market acting like it should be" It is not an unreasonable strategy gary kept me alive for 19 yrs if the answer is "no" I must get out I am a very antsy trader so when I am in a position kind of selfish behavior? I look at spreads while I am in a trade as well if a bull spread is not working and I am long I tend to run and get out cut your loses gary this is why I look at the meal _oil spread when I am long if this spread turns bearish I tend to get out and buy cheaper your first loss is your best loss as I have been told by the greatest of traders amos said that? :^) no User [Randy /204.246.241.113] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:48:08 EST 2000 Barry Lind of lind waldock fame and others because I feel that the VM CM is buying support so should I if I follow wyckoff and it is based on the CM actions and intentions I will try to emulate him I ask myself what does the CM do when the market breaks to support in an up trend? he buys right / y so that is why I preach buy support I want the same mind set If I play basketball I want to emulate Micheal Jordan the best so in trading th CM is the best does the CM buy rallies? got Stilts? or buys breaks? frank? lol@Frank breaks buys the breaks michael jordan is close to 7 feet tall so that is why I dont like to buy strenght he is? though buying confiramtion User [chris /63.14.220.247] joined forum at Wed Mar 22 21:51:52 EST 2000 is another method close enough for me but to me it increases risk many times I would rather get stopped out with 4 250 dollar losses I thought you told us buy strength and sell weakness??? than 1 1k loss I told you within in group to buy the strongest sell the weakest k k k for example buy soymeal versus buying oil but dont necessarily buy oil when it breaks out yes always buy a commodity in the best postion to give you the most bang for your buk so when I say beans last friday go to 538 and I saw the meal oil spread turing negative this to me told me to watch for a pullback even thought the martket closed on its high but into resisatnce and negative spread so I waited to rebuy at the next support under 538 which was the 523 area to a longer term trader 15 censt is not imprtant but to me it is very very important 15 censt in beans is 750 dollars to some poeple it is a small pullback but to me this is 750 dollars I would rather have in my pocket the best profits are in the long haul trades, bu so is the most loss but correct frank it is proven though that the better trader are longer term traders though but no always richer? I know some very wealthy short term traders as well as longer term traders any questions on what I have been talking about? but one has to have their own niche and trading style questions? does this make sense? yes yes, very much y y y y y amos and I differ many times on tactics but we both follow wyckoff principles but my time frame is shorter what I am trying to drill in all of your heads and mine it to identify support resisatnce accumaultion distribtion and watch the makets actions and reactions and we do this by watching VOLUME and PRICE ACTION volume and price volume and price action volume and price action very well put. -> they did not expect the fall of the soviet union, so keep your eyes open for little yellow men in Amos and I have differnt ways of getting a point across This was the "World according to Gary(p) -> blue helments, just after they but be assured lol -> get Taiwan :) we want all of us to be the best traders and have the best web site for knowledge by providing the best inforamtion Frank we have special unit in the Mosad to watch for little yellow people. we are nt afraid of our competitors because we know markets and we want to take the markets money so lets watch for support and resistance area and identify good trades I mentioend that corn had support at the 232 today so this was a decent area to buy we identified this yesterday just like we identified demand in beans at 510 then reisstance at 538 and retest at 523 -> they will march all those peaple in to the suez canal, make a bridge of the bodys, and it will not , does everyone feel comforatble with the CM's role more and more as I go along y y -> matter whether you are a towel head or jew or christian or whatever, I think it makes sense more and more when you have experienced it yes Frank, you are right. I think I have the misconception that the big price leaps are the CM and that seems not to be the correct case?? Fibo amos and I feel the most comfy with it and we want to share to help -> you will be a target.. take the markets money i am Frank, always was and will be. I believe the CM buys on braks to support -> the Nips would be worse because they look down on every one funds buy the big moves up AFTER the CM is already long The nips and the tacks, Frank amos it that your take as well? that the cm buys on pullbacks while accumaulating and it i the funds that rush it forward? What you said above about the major elements of the WYckoff system--is don't know tacks, but know the others very true. The application--is what is hard. Wyckoff said that trading accoriding to his system is a "Way of Life". He meant that you have to get used to think in these terms of identifying forces of supply and demand and who is winning and then you rank order the groups that are stronger or weaker and you choose you best trades among them. But is is so much easier said than done--it is pathyetic. pathetic this is a never ending process You have to choose your battles and this is not easy it takes alot of work and most poeple dont want to work hard at it that is why many people dont follow wyckoff Espcially if you also have a full time job bcaus ethey want easy answers and they dont exsist they want a 900 number to call with a trade and a stop and they want to walk away it isnt that easy one must devote time to the markets to suceeed One important thing to understand about the "CM" is that he/she has an do yu understand the basisc premise of what wyckoff is? infinite patience!!!! do youknow why? time & money on the cm's side? infinite pockets . . .of money Very well said dave and lmarsh when you do not have to worry about next month rent and taxes--you are in a very pretty position.